Debate happening in House of Commons: Victoria Atkins on fire

[BonfireLady]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/15/rishi-sunak-david-cameron-downing-street-general-election/

Just finished it it. Wow, this is big, isn't it?

Probably not as big as we would hope.

No mention of this debate on BBC News at 10. (Sorry if this has already been mentioned.)

Look to the patriarchy, as ever.

This is a good day. Victoria Atkinson, crikey, I’m a lifelong Labour voter, but I would vote for her. She is on it..if i was a dodgy doctor, I’d be really afraid right now.

I do think the whole ridiculous edifice is tumbling down.

I think many will have missed that the wonderful Neale Hanvey, Alba party MP, was back on his feet around 10 pm with a question/debate for the Equalities Minister about LGB and gen non-conforming young people. Hardly anyone was still there but he was terrific and covered all the issues. It'll be on Parliament TV on BBC iplayer and well worth watching. Started just before 10pm.

The Hansard transcript is quite something.
VA is absolutely on top of the issues. I was a teeny bit disappointed with Rosie Duffield and Tonia Antonazzi's respective contributions - TA's points were a bit partisan a RD's was about her - but at least they had read Cass and we know they have fought for children.

Too many Labour or non-Tory members' questions were to do with rewriting the past and/or making Cass a party political issue, which suggests they haven't really understood its significance. For some, it's as if they have been given a list of points with which to attack it and the Tories. This was not the time for that.

Some speeches were brilliant. This is what I wanted to see last week - I should have been more patient.

I've just finished this thread. I feel excited but scared 🤞
I'm truly grateful to MN and all you vipers for giving me somewhere to discover that my suspicions were well founded and then to learn much more. 💐 🍺
I'm also grateful that 21 year old DD thinks it's a crock of shit although she does sometimes roll her eyes when "go on".

And of course several of the great contributions were not from Tories, too.

Too fucking right. Mermaids should be shut down immediately!

I should mention that Keir Starmer is my MP and, as a constituent, I am entitled to consult him in surgery. I think they vet the issues first though...

Say it’s about the drains then change your mind when you get in.

My god. What’s actually happened. It’s as if someone flicked a switch and they all just woke up into reality.

Which is impossible. They must have all known all along. So how the fuck did we even get here.

Mind boggling.

Apologies as I can’t remember who asked about the actual numbers prescribed PBs. This is taken from the NHS England response to the cass Report:

^Further, there are indications through the report that there may be a lack of integrity in the gender clinic approach to data collection and reporting more generally. For example, the Cass team was advised by GIDS/Tavistock (the youth gender clinic) that only 27 percent of the referred cases were referred for endocrine interventions (puberty blockers and/or cross-sex hormones), creating the impression that only a minority of gender dysphoric youth are intervened with medically.
However, the context of the report signaled that this figure is open to misinterpretation (without directly calling it misleading). The report noted that the 27 percent only applies to the young people who were referred directly to the two adolescent endocrine centers. Among the 73 percent “non-referred” for endocrine interventions, 69 percent actually went on to adult gender clinics, where most likely received hormonal interventions.
The question of what percentage of youth referred to gender clinics end up transitioning is an open one. In the Netherlands, which claims a cautious approach, this number appears to be around 70-80 percent. It is reasonable to expect similar or even higher numbers among gender clinic staff who subscribe to the “gender-affirming” model of care. ^

Basically NHSE feel that they agree with Cass’s suggestion that the numbers given by Tavi wildly understate the true picture (I am inferring because some patients will have gone and got them privately, which Tavi whistleblowers have mentioned too, I think?)

The structures will stay until we dismantle them. Cass is another building block towards that outcome. I'm hoping Wings High Court case will be another.

I’ve lurked on the FWR threads for a few years as I have a DN who was on the waiting list for the Tavistock GIDS clinic. She said she was a boy when she was 13 and her parents were only too happy for her to transition and go down the medical pathway as she is autistic and had always been a unhappy difficult and they thought this was the solution to all her problems. I work in healthcare and felt very uncomfortable with it all and spoke to my DB about my concerns but he said she’d been referred to the best NHS clinic in the country which was also world renowned and the doctors were medically qualified. Ironically it was the long waiting lists which saved her from the GIDs clinic and by the time she was near the top of the waiting list they were told not to accept any new patients. My DN was a classic GIDs patient teenage autistic girl, early onset puberty with an eating disorder and poor family dynamics. I’m so grateful for Dr Cass’ review which gives those of us who have witness the harms done to young people the ability to vanquish all those ghouls who have use them as a smoke screen to advance their sick causes or as Miriam Cates says for the mediocre (here’s looking at you Streeting, Butler, Russel Moyles) to gain social approval

The big thing that needs to happen, and I'm sceptical whether it will, is CAMHS getting much more capacity to deal with autism and general mental health issues. I think pretty much any parent that's had to deal with them despairs over the wait times for any meaningful interventions. Perhaps if some of those with complex needs had been dealt with more appropriately earlier on, then they may never have felt the need to transition.

Just finished watching …. well, that was well worth abandoning my plans for an early night for!

The Scottish Government must address this next, and quickly.

They (whoever they really are) have so shockingly entrenched themselves into so many institutions so quickly, while the going was good for them, a lot of digging will be needed to remove every root of the rotten vine.

I just finished watching, it was magnificent, now I really hope this will trickle down to us in Wales, Cardiff is like an alternate universe lately, it's really quite frightening!

I agree mental health services need more resource. For children and adults.

But I am incredibly hopeful that quite a portion of mental health issues will be avoided by unwinding this mess.

I don’t like to talk about this often as I don’t let it define me. But this issue back in 2017 caused me to have a mental breakdown. It’s funny 2017 was mentioned because watching this I was thinking about that time. It was an incredibly lonely time. A group of mainly women could see this happening. A slaughter really of women’s and children’s safeguarding rights and institutional capture, intimidation, government legislation bought in stealthily, prosecutions of wrong think even. And you couldn’t talk to anyone about it. If you did they thought you were mental. Of course that’s not happening or ever going to happen. Don’t be stupid. But it was happening.

I as a fully grown woman could not believe that something like this could happen. That science, nuance, social discourse, and just basic reality could be all thrown out the window by governments, society and institutions on a complete whim without a single thought for what that actually meant.

Looking back I can’t remember which bit in particular pushed me over the edge. That you could be prosecuted for saying black is black and white is white, when that lady who was attacked in the park had to apologise to her attacker in court, or the hours I cried thinking about the children who were transitioning on the premise of being told by everyone around them they would be recognised as the other sex in every single aspect of life. When I knew that wasn’t true and would never stand the test of time.

I don’t know why I’m writing all this but I think my point is; if this mind fuck caused a grown woman with no previous mental health issues to have a full blown mental breakdown then why on earth do we not think this has or had potential to affect children and teens deeply. The confusion on a young mind must be absolutely unprecedented. Because this isn’t even all to do with trans anything. This is to do with basic tenets of our social structure and civilised society; Truth, reality, responsibility, accountability, authority.

There might even be a portion of society now that cannot undo this mental damage. That itself may be irreversible. That at such a crucial period in the brains development everyone told them black is white and white is black; but now it’s not. And by trusted governments, professionals and institutions. What damage has that actually done?!

I do think they need a public enquiry but I don’t think it should aim to name and shame anyone. I think they need to analyse how this was allowed to happen and to do that people will need to feel comfortable enough to be open and honest with themselves as well as others.

She is brilliant. We done, Joanne

"open and honest with themselves". Er, right. Gymnoob, you are much more forgiving than me and with a charitable mien in cannot extend to these nut jobs. These headaches are complete fanatics and ideologues-naming and shaming is the least of it. Let's not pretend otherwise-this lot are guilty of cutting off the tits and bollocks of kids. being tarred and feathered in the street would be just a start in my book.

Thank you for your honesty @Gymnoob
I didn't cause me a full blown breakdown, but I relate to everything you say, and it certainly had a marked impact on my mental health. From around the same time too.

Everything felt de-stabilised- surreal- and like Stepford Wives, when everyone else around you seems fine and in board with it (and judging people with thoughts like yours as bigoted) And that awful feeling of not being able to verbalise it , like those bad dreams where you open your mouth to shout and no sound comes out.

It was bad enough it had an impact in my work situation.
I can't imagine how awful it must be to feel like that AND have a child, or close child relative being pulled into it.

It was the sheer amount of energy from those invested in gender lies. From the use of “culture wars”, ‘no one cares’, ‘no one’s talking about it’, ‘transphobic’ it goes on and on

Posters on here, half the media, the Labour party, Stonewall, invested organisations, people’s livelihoods and angry males

It’s a huge suppression but of course an adult arguing against clear and rational Cass and not noticing harm to children is a fool m, a dangerous one at that

I’m delighted with today, VA did a great job, but like the pp I don’t underestimate how much people will try to hold onto the lies

They have been exposed though so I have much more hope now