Page 11 | Debate happening in House of Commons: Victoria Atkins on fire

Appalonia · 16/04/2024 02:46

Today has felt like a long awaited day of reckoning. We've waited SO LONG for this and it was glorious to watch! Still a long way to go, but my word, we've come so far. Still feel utterly furious that this madness has infiltrated our public institutions to such a damaging extent.

PyongyangKipperbang · 16/04/2024 02:50

BonfireLady · 15/04/2024 18:00

Miriam Cates: I have no doubt that what happened... will go down as one of the worst medical scandals of our generation

I disagree.

I think that it will be THE worst medical scandal of any generation save what Mengele did.

My 18 year old son said that I "dont get it" because I am the wrong generation, so I asked him if he knew about Thalidomide and how the scientists who approved it, the doctors who prescribed it and the women who took it all thought that it was the best thing to do. He didnt. Now he does. He is still supportive of his trans friends but is coming around to the fact that giving prepubescent kids puberty blockers is maybe not "just something they need to do", as he used to. Its a start.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 16/04/2024 03:55

Gymnoob · 16/04/2024 01:05

I agree mental health services need more resource. For children and adults.

But I am incredibly hopeful that quite a portion of mental health issues will be avoided by unwinding this mess.

I don’t like to talk about this often as I don’t let it define me. But this issue back in 2017 caused me to have a mental breakdown. It’s funny 2017 was mentioned because watching this I was thinking about that time. It was an incredibly lonely time. A group of mainly women could see this happening. A slaughter really of women’s and children’s safeguarding rights and institutional capture, intimidation, government legislation bought in stealthily, prosecutions of wrong think even. And you couldn’t talk to anyone about it. If you did they thought you were mental. Of course that’s not happening or ever going to happen. Don’t be stupid. But it was happening.

I as a fully grown woman could not believe that something like this could happen. That science, nuance, social discourse, and just basic reality could be all thrown out the window by governments, society and institutions on a complete whim without a single thought for what that actually meant.

Looking back I can’t remember which bit in particular pushed me over the edge. That you could be prosecuted for saying black is black and white is white, when that lady who was attacked in the park had to apologise to her attacker in court, or the hours I cried thinking about the children who were transitioning on the premise of being told by everyone around them they would be recognised as the other sex in every single aspect of life. When I knew that wasn’t true and would never stand the test of time.

I don’t know why I’m writing all this but I think my point is; if this mind fuck caused a grown woman with no previous mental health issues to have a full blown mental breakdown then why on earth do we not think this has or had potential to affect children and teens deeply. The confusion on a young mind must be absolutely unprecedented. Because this isn’t even all to do with trans anything. This is to do with basic tenets of our social structure and civilised society; Truth, reality, responsibility, accountability, authority.

There might even be a portion of society now that cannot undo this mental damage. That itself may be irreversible. That at such a crucial period in the brains development everyone told them black is white and white is black; but now it’s not. And by trusted governments, professionals and institutions. What damage has that actually done?!

I do think they need a public enquiry but I don’t think it should aim to name and shame anyone. I think they need to analyse how this was allowed to happen and to do that people will need to feel comfortable enough to be open and honest with themselves as well as others.

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Women were being gaslit and abused by multiple institutions at scale. I say "abused" because:

being fired for asserting that women have vulvas not penises is a form of financial abuse.
a certain litigious golf club wielder was abusing the legal system to silence women and abusing women through the courts is a recognised form of abuse.
coerced speech is coercion.

That's just off the top of my head after waking up in pain at 4am, there's more abuse methods that I've not listed.

It's not surprising that women's mental health has suffered. I wouldn't be surprised if some of us have PTSD.

Mummyoflittledragon · 16/04/2024 04:13

MurielThrockmorton · 15/04/2024 19:37

Greens have Jenny Jones, who's great and has had some grief herself, and Natalie Bennett, former leader, who is TWAW in the HoL. Caroline Lucas honestly is too bright to really believe TWAW surely but she's in Brighton so there'd be uproar if she didn't toe the (bonkers) Party line.

I know a woman, who is very bright and highly qualified, lived in a similarly liberal area until recently, child in a Steiner school. I challenged her beliefs and having listened to me, she became GC. This was perhaps 2 years ago so idk if the mums still believe. However, living inside a bubble, where everyone believes the same thing, even the most intelligent of people can be blinkered.

Thank you for the thread op. Very interesting.

songaboutjam · 16/04/2024 04:18

I used to be surrounded by believers in gender ideology. The pressure of having to be dishonest with almost everyone really got to me. I had to come off certain social media because it was feeding me such vitriolic content. Even now, certain words make my heart beat faster if I'm not expecting them.

On several occasions I've been out with be-kind friends and have overheard people negatively discussing gender stuff. When it happened the other day, I was trying to distract my friend without even realising what I was doing.

No wonder my generation has such poor mental health -- we're either hyper-aware of every single perceived injustice and under huge social pressure to correct those injustices, or we're on the receiving end of the pointy bigot stick.

sweetgrapes · 16/04/2024 05:11

Amazing stuff! Been a long time coming!

PoochiesPinkEars · 16/04/2024 06:14

BoreOfWhabylon · 15/04/2024 18:13

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/d24d1ca0-217e-4b72-a44c-0d5c453a4a60
From 17:23:40

Listened to the whole thing. What a breath of fresh air! I'm so cheered and relieved the sunlight has got through for this.
Still more to do but it's a good start.
I lurk here more than I post as I'm nowhere near as eloquent or informed as others, but I'd like to share my relief that this has happened..

Lion400 · 16/04/2024 07:04

PronounssheRa · 15/04/2024 22:05

You can watch it in glorious technicolor

https://twitter.com/Wommando/status/1779976921792557306

He truly is awful.

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❤️

Winnading · 16/04/2024 07:11

RedToothBrush · 15/04/2024 22:27

Seen someone else quote Churchill on this though I forget who it was:

“Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.”

Long way to go still.

The more we talk the more it falls apart.

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I'm left wondering if actually this is the end and one day a year from now will we be thinking, wow last year I had a soapbox issue and now it's just tendrils, wispy, ephemeral.

But I doubt it, the men wont stop trying to gain access to us, our children, our spaces.

I am however relieved that 20 plus years of shouting has finally culminated in something tangible.

Thank you to all who did take notice, tried their best, were adamant, went to court, made waves, would not shut up. No its probably not the end, it's near though.

LoobiJee · 16/04/2024 07:14

BusyMummy001 · 16/04/2024 00:15

Apologies as I can’t remember who asked about the actual numbers prescribed PBs. This is taken from the NHS England response to the cass Report:

^Further, there are indications through the report that there may be a lack of integrity in the gender clinic approach to data collection and reporting more generally. For example, the Cass team was advised by GIDS/Tavistock (the youth gender clinic) that only 27 percent of the referred cases were referred for endocrine interventions (puberty blockers and/or cross-sex hormones), creating the impression that only a minority of gender dysphoric youth are intervened with medically.
However, the context of the report signaled that this figure is open to misinterpretation (without directly calling it misleading). The report noted that the 27 percent only applies to the young people who were referred directly to the two adolescent endocrine centers. Among the 73 percent “non-referred” for endocrine interventions, 69 percent actually went on to adult gender clinics, where most likely received hormonal interventions.
The question of what percentage of youth referred to gender clinics end up transitioning is an open one. In the Netherlands, which claims a cautious approach, this number appears to be around 70-80 percent. It is reasonable to expect similar or even higher numbers among gender clinic staff who subscribe to the “gender-affirming” model of care. ^

Basically NHSE feel that they agree with Cass’s suggestion that the numbers given by Tavi wildly understate the true picture (I am inferring because some patients will have gone and got them privately, which Tavi whistleblowers have mentioned too, I think?)

Further, there are indications through the report that there may be a lack of integrity in the gender clinic approach to data collection and reporting more generally.
^^
However, the context of the report signaled that this figure is open to misinterpretation (without directly calling it misleading).

That’s shocking. I mean, we knew from Hannah Barnes research how poor they were but seeing the NHSE write that…..

Igneococcus · 16/04/2024 07:16

I missed it all yesterday but have just watch Victoria Atkins slap down RLM. "Classic" as my teenagers would say.

ArabellaScott · 16/04/2024 07:17

Mycatsmudge · 16/04/2024 00:18

I’ve lurked on the FWR threads for a few years as I have a DN who was on the waiting list for the Tavistock GIDS clinic. She said she was a boy when she was 13 and her parents were only too happy for her to transition and go down the medical pathway as she is autistic and had always been a unhappy difficult and they thought this was the solution to all her problems. I work in healthcare and felt very uncomfortable with it all and spoke to my DB about my concerns but he said she’d been referred to the best NHS clinic in the country which was also world renowned and the doctors were medically qualified. Ironically it was the long waiting lists which saved her from the GIDs clinic and by the time she was near the top of the waiting list they were told not to accept any new patients. My DN was a classic GIDs patient teenage autistic girl, early onset puberty with an eating disorder and poor family dynamics. I’m so grateful for Dr Cass’ review which gives those of us who have witness the harms done to young people the ability to vanquish all those ghouls who have use them as a smoke screen to advance their sick causes or as Miriam Cates says for the mediocre (here’s looking at you Streeting, Butler, Russel Moyles) to gain social approval

I hope your DN is getting the help and support she needs. That must have been so hard to watch.

GnomeDePlume · 16/04/2024 07:23

For too long this has been a taboo topic in my home. My adult (mid 20s) DCs have been totally taken by gender affirmation politics. JKR is the devil incarnate etc etc. They are all intelligent people, two are scientists. But they have been totally taken in by SM 'facts'.

Whenever I have said anything which is less than affirmatory I have been derided as being out of touch, on the wrong side of history. They have stopped short of calling me a bigot but only just.

DH, previously strong on sex based rules especially when it came to sport, has abdicated from expressing an opinion. I think he has been frightened by the vehemence with which our DCs have expressed their opinions and hasn't wanted to be 'wrong'.

The Cass report has made sense to me. I have only read extracts so far. What I can see is that there is a total disconnect between the media visuals and the data. The visuals are all about boys/men wanting to be girls/women. Yet the data is more about girls 'wanting' to be boys.

ArabellaScott · 16/04/2024 07:24

This is to do with basic tenets of our social structure and civilised society; Truth, reality, responsibility, accountability, authority.

100%

It's just wrong and built on lies. That's what's always got me. You can't say a man is a woman, it's attempting to sell the biggest and most obvious lie in the world. Everyone knows its a lie! And people were forced and compelled to lie.

The key of course was not the substance of the lie but the power. If you can force someone to say that a man is a woman you have power over them.

Those who would have us believe absurdities would have us commit atrocities.

Cass has opened to door to people recognising the atrocity of sterilising children in service of this terrible absurd ideology.

ArabellaScott · 16/04/2024 07:32

As for it being the end: all eyes on Labour. What's Starmer saying to all of this? He sent Streeting to waffle a bit.

Once Labour are in are they going to paint Cass as a Tory project and fuck it all up?

We have to press them hard now. They're pursuing the attempt to dilute the horror of what's happened and blame whistleblowers for 'toxic' debate.

Remind them of women attacked as they left meetings, screamed at, threatened, abused, smeared, sacked, arrested, pilloried and mocked, and all of it an attempt to defend genderism.

They had to attack us because they cannot defend genderism with reason. They'll continue to do the same. Obfuscate and divert. Hold them to account. Write to your MPs and ask them what next. Let them know we are watching!

ArabellaScott · 16/04/2024 07:33

Note this wasn't reported on the BBC, too.

ArabellaScott · 16/04/2024 07:34

It won't be revealed as the scandal it is until our national broadcaster is forced to report on it, and do so even handedly.

WhyHuntSnails · 16/04/2024 07:38

*GnomeDePlume · Today 07:23

For too long this has been a taboo topic in my home. My adult (mid 20s) DCs have been totally taken by gender affirmation politics. JKR is the devil incarnate etc etc. They are all intelligent people, two are scientists. But they have been totally taken in by SM 'facts'.*

Very divided opinion amongst my kids. The youngest thinks it's dangerous tosh. The oldest is autistic and too afraid of being a social outcast to say anything. The middle one is enmeshed with 'nonbinary' mates and is on high alert for any breath of disagreement worthy of a righteous scolding in either sibling. (Otherwise really quite a nice kid. They all are. But god, the tension.)

TheaBrandt · 16/04/2024 07:41

This board has enabled me to gently direct my teen dds. Neither captured. One spoke out in PSHE to say women always needed single sex spaces. Girls school ALL the other girls agreed. Middle aged female teacher “looked like she was going to cry” according to Dd and said how proud she was of them.

Snowypeaks · 16/04/2024 07:42