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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Older generations show resistance to trans rights

1000 replies

Inauthentic · 07/04/2024 22:36

"Millennials and Gen Z tend to be overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment, while older generations show far more resistance to trans rights, likely intimidated by the speed of social change."

Is this your experience?
There appears to be an overwhelming support for gender critical beliefs on Mumsnet.
Is it because it's mainly older generations engaging in this debate?

How old are you and what are your views?

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
30
Underthinker · 08/04/2024 07:37

@ArabellaScott some clever person found it and linked a few pages back. It was a Forbes article about JKR and Emma Watson.

WickedSerious · 08/04/2024 07:38

What do you mean by 'trans rights'?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 08/04/2024 07:39

PaterPower · 08/04/2024 07:09

Younger generations are more ‘inclusive?’ You wish. ‘Trans Rights’ is just code for a variation on the misogynistic bullshit that people like Tate have been spewing for the last decade.

Can confirm. A few days ago I was unceremoniously kicked out of an online parenting group consisting of mainly US based millennials simply for saying I disagreed with them about JK Rowling being an evil bigot.

They are only inclusive of people who think exactly the same way they do.

FrippEnos · 08/04/2024 07:39

@Inauthentic

What is your definition of trans?
And could you provide a list of those that fit under the definition?
I would also like to know if you believe that Transwomen are women do you believe that lesbians should have to sleep with them due to Transwomen's identity and not on the requirements of being a lesbian?
Do you support Gender when it is based on outdated stereotypes?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/04/2024 07:43

Re sport

https://x.com/wingsscotland/status/1178410585886724096?s=46&t=aWQLrPtVicDNf6MQpq5WVg

mixed sex 4x400 relay. Female polish athlete on final leg with a 5 second lead - 4 men all go past her. Mixed sex sport would result in men winning everything

also wasn’t there one of the half marathons where they brought in a NB category and then because men kept winning all the prizes, it was suggested they have male NB and female NB🤡

https://x.com/wingsscotland/status/1178410585886724096?s=46&t=aWQLrPtVicDNf6MQpq5WVg

ForCoralFox · 08/04/2024 07:43

I'm a millennial. I think trans women are women, and should be treated as such. I think that trans men and women should be able to use the facilities that match their gender identity. The only exception would be in the incredibly rare cases of violent sex offenders, who should be in separate facilities.

I think that children should be able to socially transition at school, and that if they choose not to tell their parents, their confidentiality should be respected. Puberty blockers and medical transition should be between the child and their doctor, not a matter for politicians or the tabloid press to discuss, nor randoms on the internet.

I think that sport is just a bit of fun and that everyone should enjoy it together without obsessing about perceived advantages, although some contact sports should perhaps be organised by size or weight.

I think that deliberate, malicious misgendering should be covered by hate crime legislation.

I only know one person who is openly transphobic, by which I mean does not accept trans men and women are really men and women. I know two other people who says transphobic things while claiming not to be transphobic. They are all my age (millenials.) All the older people I know (baby boomers and gen x) are sympathetic to trans rights and think we should treat people as their chosen gender, as are all the younger people (gens z and alpha.)

AgnesX · 08/04/2024 07:44

FFSNorman · 07/04/2024 22:40

They mostly voted Brexit too.

Who did, if you mean " older" people I don't fucking think so.

🙄

PS with regards to trans. I'm happy for them to have the same rights as everyone else.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/04/2024 07:46

sport that is literally a multi trillion global dollar industry which makes people into multi millionaires is “just a bit of fun?”? That sport???

im embarrassed for you

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2024 07:46

I only know one person who is openly transphobic, by which I mean does not accept trans men and women are really men and women.

Ah so you don't know any doctors who are competent then.

Good for you.

Meanwhile in the real world.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/04/2024 07:48

I’m assuming all the TW are literal women brigade will also be able to show the wondrous science that changes the skeletal structure on the left to the one on the right

Older generations show resistance to trans rights
ZsaZsaTheCat · 08/04/2024 07:50

Deadringer · 07/04/2024 22:48

My 3 eldest dc are gender critical, they are 33, 31 and 25. My younger 2 are full on woke at 20 and 15. I also would like to know which trans rights you support? I don't see how someone can think that trans women for example should be afforded the right to use women's bathroom and changing facilities, but not to compete against women in sports? I mean they are either women or they are not.

57 here -is my age really relevant?
Trans women should not use female spaces or compete in female sports. They need their own sports category.
Lots of toilets now are unisex so what’s wrong with that!

Okayornot · 08/04/2024 07:50

The teenagers I know are largely supportive of maintaining single sex spaces, especially in sport and changing rooms. I can only think of one who thinks TRAW in all circumstances. And yes, this does come up- there are a number of kids at school who assert they are trans. It is greeted with an eye roll and no bullying but certainly not full buy in by any means.

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2024 07:51

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/04/2024 07:48

I’m assuming all the TW are literal women brigade will also be able to show the wondrous science that changes the skeletal structure on the left to the one on the right

Dear god! You mean biology is transphobic!

Shit cancel biology. Ban it. Burn all biology books.

This must be done NOW because the hate will make trans people jump off tall buildings.

borntobequiet · 08/04/2024 07:54

I feel sorry for you, because you haven’t realised that you too will grow old and turn into a bigot.

ForCoralFox · 08/04/2024 07:54

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/04/2024 07:46

sport that is literally a multi trillion global dollar industry which makes people into multi millionaires is “just a bit of fun?”? That sport???

im embarrassed for you

It's completely ridiculous that it's a multi trillion dollar global industry and no one should be a millionaire just for kicking a ball about on a bit of grass.

ForCoralFox · 08/04/2024 07:57

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2024 07:46

I only know one person who is openly transphobic, by which I mean does not accept trans men and women are really men and women.

Ah so you don't know any doctors who are competent then.

Good for you.

Meanwhile in the real world.

Your doctor's surgery or a hospital is literally the only place where your biological sex should be relevant.

FrippEnos · 08/04/2024 07:57

ForCoralFox · 08/04/2024 07:54

It's completely ridiculous that it's a multi trillion dollar global industry and no one should be a millionaire just for kicking a ball about on a bit of grass.

Its less ridiculous than saying that a man is a woman and a woman is a man.

sleepyscientist · 08/04/2024 07:58

@Delphinium20 I am, but more mixed martial arts these days than team sports. I think it depends on the sport on how you tackle a mixed league or game, rugby is the only one I can think of that is very difficult. Football I would say a mixed game where teams have to field 6 woman 5 men (or 12 a side would be better), mixed singles in tennis or weight based matching in the fighting/riding sports is a good way forward. Its seem very backwards to see the men's game be massive and equally talented woman who could beat those men not be able to compete in the same game or fight because of DNA.

It would be interesting to see what would happen to the leagues if the games were mixed. I wouldn't be surprised if the championship became dominated by the best woman's teams and premier league remained largely male with a few excellent female players however over time I imagine even that would change.

@songaboutjam

As the mum of a son my concerns are not only making things equal but creating an optimum environment for him and everyone else to succeed in life. I would actually like to see less gender based protection for woman as it's is starting to harm men with a move to everyone having equal rights regardless of gender with no protection for woman if they harm men.

Male and female rights and protections are currently equitable, or roughly equitable. How would you go about abolishing this equity and amalgamating them?

I would remove all references to gender from everything to accommodate those who don't want to be defined by genetics. I would actually cut rights to things like maternity leave to 6 months for each parent from birth so that those born XX aren't discriminated against in the work place. I would actually also even out rights to things like homeless accommodation and stop pushing things like woman in science that is now harming men. This isn't just about making things equal for woman but also protecting men as the mum of a son I can see how he could be discriminated against in the future.

• How would you go about creating a unisex space whilst ensuring the safety of both the more physically vulnerable sex, and disabled people?

I would look to have 24/7 CCTV in all public locations with no dead spaces (yes including toilets) the only private space would be an individual cubicle and the CCTV would capture all those entering and leaving the space protecting the vulnerable and powerful from accusations. That accommodates everyone as the actual location is private but also open to everyone in the same way. So parents can accompany kids and those who don't confine to tradition aren't stuck using somewhere that doesn't fit their needs either. We still have situations where men cannot change their kids for crying out loud that's a bigger problem than accommodating religious beliefs in the western world.

• Given that mediocre male athletes can outperform even the best female athletes in much the way a shark can outswim Michael Phelps, how would you ensure fairness and opportunity for female athletes to shine? How would you make sure women partaking in sports are not seriously injured by much stronger players?

That's not the case in all sports like riding or contact sports. The majority could be gender neutral such as ensuring football teams are roughly 50:50 split, mixed singles or weight based team selection. Also I know plenty of woman who can and do beat men in sport.

• How do all of your proposed solutions offer benefits that the current solutions do not?

It moves forward to a world where;
-woman don't get discriminated against as they may take maternity leave.
-men aren't all seen as a threat rather an equal and have protection from unevidenced accusations as they are seen/treat as an equal threat.
-men have equal rights to things like homeless protections.
-woman are equally able to compete at the top level in sports including in those teams with the biggest incomes!! Premier league football I'm looking at you, even strong man competitions!
-families can freely use any space without the hassle of your sons to old to be in here etc
-those who don't conform to tradition of what you are born defines you aren't stuck in no man's land of having no where to go.
-nothing is viewed as a man's role or a woman's role

tara66 · 08/04/2024 07:58

I don't know - don't have interest in this matter but it's pushed all the time. Not interested - but why complicate life in this way? Seems somewhat attention seeking.... Very old.

WickedSerious · 08/04/2024 07:59

ForCoralFox · 08/04/2024 07:43

I'm a millennial. I think trans women are women, and should be treated as such. I think that trans men and women should be able to use the facilities that match their gender identity. The only exception would be in the incredibly rare cases of violent sex offenders, who should be in separate facilities.

I think that children should be able to socially transition at school, and that if they choose not to tell their parents, their confidentiality should be respected. Puberty blockers and medical transition should be between the child and their doctor, not a matter for politicians or the tabloid press to discuss, nor randoms on the internet.

I think that sport is just a bit of fun and that everyone should enjoy it together without obsessing about perceived advantages, although some contact sports should perhaps be organised by size or weight.

I think that deliberate, malicious misgendering should be covered by hate crime legislation.

I only know one person who is openly transphobic, by which I mean does not accept trans men and women are really men and women. I know two other people who says transphobic things while claiming not to be transphobic. They are all my age (millenials.) All the older people I know (baby boomers and gen x) are sympathetic to trans rights and think we should treat people as their chosen gender, as are all the younger people (gens z and alpha.)

Fuck that,I'm not living in someone else's imagination.

ArabellaScott · 08/04/2024 07:59

This thread reminded me of this delightful interview.

ForCoralFox · 08/04/2024 08:01

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2024 07:51

Dear god! You mean biology is transphobic!

Shit cancel biology. Ban it. Burn all biology books.

This must be done NOW because the hate will make trans people jump off tall buildings.

You are joking about suicide. You are really showing who you are here.

Brefugee · 08/04/2024 08:01

Stop. Equating. Homosexuality. With. Trans.

Roystonv · 08/04/2024 08:01

64 years old. I am gender critical and cannot believe how many countries in the world have wound themselves in knots to support trans people at a time that many are in real crisis. It is self indulgent nonsense believing they do not already have rights and deserve time, money and effort to be devoted to them. They should be ashamed. I have no objection to them living as they choose but it is a tiny often confused minority dictating to the great majority and that will never be acceptable.

Okayornot · 08/04/2024 08:02

Your doctor's surgery or a hospital is literally the only place where your biological sex should be relevant.

Yeah, fuck those vulnerable women in prison.

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