Older generations show resistance to trans rights

[Inauthentic]

"Millennials and Gen Z tend to be overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment, while older generations show far more resistance to trans rights, likely intimidated by the speed of social change."

Is this your experience?
There appears to be an overwhelming support for gender critical beliefs on Mumsnet.
Is it because it's mainly older generations engaging in this debate?

How old are you and what are your views?

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area)

Yes. There was never a time we said they should change sex. There was never a time we even considered allowing or even mentioning a sex change.
I will admit we all shot him down when he was younger. We all said you’re just a ‘Tom boy’ it’s normal to be confused blah blah blah.
He never felt like a girl, he honestly felt he was a boy born in the wrong body.
After nearly 20 years of him telling us this and us basically saying it’s okay to be a ‘butch lesbian’ he still hadn’t come to terms with being a woman.
He can’t explain it, he’s tried.

Trans people have to live as the opposite sex as part of the transition process. Nothing much changed at the start as his activities and employment were not gender specific.
The hormones helped as it promoted facial hair and he has always tried to flatten his breasts so this wasn’t new either.
I don’t agree with any child/young adult going through any transition to be honest. I personally would prefer my SS was still my beautifully butch SD. I miss her terribly. However, he is an adult and has made his decision. I will support him all the way.

Sorry, why is it ok to now start grilling a mother about her sons choices?

Where?

My experience of trans people is they don't fit in terribly well in their chosen gender either.

No. The two are not the same. What point are you making?

What's the difference?

@Zodfa A friend of a friend had a sex change to become a woman. Still regrets it

@GoonieGang I just wanted to say is that you're a great mum :)

So removing penis and testicles from man A makes man A a woman but removing penis and testicles from man B does not make man B a woman

Ok. They live 'as if they are the opposite sex' but they are not the opposite sex. I gather that you acknowledge this.

Sadly, there really is a group of female people who come to realise that even with all the testosterone, even when they closely emulate the male body they want to have, they simply will never achieve what they have conceptualised in their mind. To use your words 'they will never fit in like a boy', because they are not male.

I hope that they have some robust mental health support that they can turn to that prepares them for this understanding which seems very common. Even though some trans people don't detransition, some report gaining this understanding. At each stage this specific group may feel euphoria but then they realise that this has not quite got them to where they believed they would be so seek another treatment. And so it goes.

Either removing the penis turns a man into a woman or it doesn't. If it's not the removal of a penis that counts but it is the invisible feelings of the person then it shouldn't matter one jot whether they retain their penis or not.

Yes. This is common.

It also has been studied and I believe there are some studies showing that there is no evidence that proves that these surgeries improve the mental health of the patients. And there have been papers that detail that the suicide rate after transition and treatment is just as high, maybe higher, because of it. There has been at least two applications for euthanasia that I have read about because the people who surgically transitioned finally understood they would never 'be' what they wanted to be. (I am happy to go and find those papers and the studies I have seen to post them if anyone is interested)

It is why suicide statistics should never been used as a reason for affirming only treatment.

I’m 40 and generally supportive of the trans community, I think it’s been blown out of proportion on here, social media etc. There are issues which need resolved in law - sports, prisons and domestic abuse type safe spaces.

If women on Mumsnet, on social media and elsewhere hadn't kicked up a fuss how do you imagine those issues would be resolved in law? Who do you think is driving the resolution? Who is funding the court cases to achieve this?

Without the women (and men) who according to you are 'blowing it out of proportion' the government would still be putting rapists in women's prisons and you probably wouldn't know it.

Did you perhaps think Stonewall or other trans orgs were going to lead the way in sorting all that out?

I assume that the bloke who got his dick chopped off did not think ‘yay, now I can have a vag’
Again, what’s your point?

No it’s not the removal that makes a man or a woman.
It’s a transition and the surgery is a stage in that transition.

How does this "transition" actually take place?

What is the difference between a female person who hasn't had a mastectomy and a phalloplasty and testosterone, and one who has? Is one trans and not the other?

What happens then to those female people who do all of that and then realise that they are not male people but cannot change what they have done? Are they still 'men'? If so, why?

Anything to add to that? I assume you think transwomen should be allowed in female only spaces like toilets, changing rooms, rape crisis centres, domestic violence shelters, prisons and sports?

How about in 10 years when you may be more frail? Would you be fine receiving intimate care from a transwoman?

Does that mean all women should get no say in whether their own intimate care is carried out by transwomen?

I support rights of trans women to use toilets, get married, have families, present as women in their day to day life and be referred to as whatever name and pronoun they desire - these are basic rights

Why is it a basic right to be referred to as whatever name and pronoun one desires? Particularly pronouns. Do I have a right to be referred to as I wish? I would like to be referred to as the nicest, wisest, most wonderful man imaginable. Somehow that isn’t quite how people actually refer to me. Why is my view of myself, my "identity" if you like, not paramount except when it comes to pronouns? And yet, “nicest, wisest, most wonderful” are just matters of opinion, while pronouns used about me have, throughout my life until the last few years, been understood to refer to the physical reality of my male sex.

People sometimes say that language evolves. That is true, but when it comes to gender ideology, language has not evolved, it has been imposed. Somehow the most marginalised demographic in society has imposed its language on everyone. “Most marginalised” my little toenail. TRAs are the most bigoted and controlling people I have ever come across, and I’m reaching the point where I don’t care any more what they call me, or what they want me to call them.

And the younger generation (you) seems to get away with a terrible lack of grammar, punctuation and spelling.

A stage that you said was the one that made a man into woman so if a male born trans person can't afford/hasn't yet had/isn't medically able to have full surgery are they a man or a woman? If they are a man should they be treated as a woman? In all circumstances, in some, in none?

Pronouns are a not a basic right. It's up to me if I call a clear as day male 'she'. Not anyone else.

It’s magical thinking, that’s what it is.

They do, mental health support is there all the way through.
FWIW I don’t think there are as many people who truly want to become a totally different gender. In my SS case, he was in his late twenties when he started transitioning and we can only be supportive of his decision.
I have come to my own conclusion that if anyone is seriously wanting to become a different gender then having the ‘gender affirming’ surgery (butchery in my own personal opinion) then I’m will to accept them as that gender. That is my own personal decision and I am aware not everyone will remotely agree.

I'm guessing you also think any person who doesn't believe in god is hateful towards Christians? People who don't believe in Allah are hateful towards Muslims? ....The list is endless. Are we required to believe in everything because to not is hateful?