Older generations show resistance to trans rights

[Inauthentic]

"Millennials and Gen Z tend to be overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment, while older generations show far more resistance to trans rights, likely intimidated by the speed of social change."

Is this your experience?
There appears to be an overwhelming support for gender critical beliefs on Mumsnet.
Is it because it's mainly older generations engaging in this debate?

How old are you and what are your views?

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area)

My SS has not been sold a lie. He’s been saying he doesn’t want to be a girl since around 2002. He’s never felt or wanted to be a girl.
Not every trans person is delusional. He doesn’t fit in as a girl. It’s his decision and has had no encouragement to change anything about them. We support his choice, he is a adult now.

I’m 40 and generally supportive of the trans community, I think it’s been blown out of proportion on here, social media etc. There are issues which need resolved in law - sports, prisons and domestic abuse type safe spaces. I don’t care about toilets, I don’t believe there are any wishful rapists sitting at home just waiting to be allowed into a women’s bathroom to commit their crime. Denying that these people even exist (born man = always man etc) won’t age well imo. Being trans is not a new thing by any stretch, but would have just been seen as weirdos/eccentric etc in the past just like gay people have been treated before them.

Having now read further it appears that posters step son is their step daughter! So would need to switch the sexs in the above example and the work place accident would need to be severe enough to requirethe removal of breasts and womb!

This is why words bloody matter!! No one knows what/who the hell people are actually talking about when they change the meaning of words!!

No, a male person will never require a gynaecologist - no matter what reconstrcutive surgery they have. Gynaecologists deal with female biology and female body parts.

I’m sorry your female stepchild has had to grow up in such a bullshit, homophobic environment.

My stepdaughter is the same, but thankfully now gradually desisting after 5 years of cross sex identification with her healthy body intact.

Pretty sure she’s autistic but fuck me, is it hard to get an ASD assessment for a a kid who meets expected levels in school!

I'm sure the lad my DH helped medevac back from Afghanistan minus his penis will be thrilled to know he has in fact been a woman for the last decade.

I think most of us, whatever age, accept that you can't actually change sex, but sympathise with gender dysphoria. To be honest, I don't actually think that there are that many people who suffer from it, but there are lot of people (men) who want to jump onto that bandwagon. Men who want to indulge in their sexual kicks of dressing in female garb - have you noticed how the ones making all the noise don't dress as mousy women, oh no, the full face of slap, the overly tight clothes and short skirts, the fishnet stockings, the huge comedy breasts etc. And men who want access to female changing rooms to perv at women and girls, and maybe even expose themselves. Let's not forget men who as male athletes can't actually cut the mustard, but they sure can use those male hormones to win against women in sport.

Your 'son' remains female. There is no choice involved in the matter. The only choice involved is in how one express oneself and one's individuality.

If your 'son' is taking testosterone it is going to have different impacts on their female biology than testosterone would have on a male body.

He doesn't fit in as a 'girl'? Did anyone ever tell this child that there is no one way to 'fit in as a girl'? I spent years 'not fitting in a girl' and 'not wanting to be a girl'! It never once made me a boy or a man.

As to whether they are 'delusional' to use your words, I think that perhaps you need to explain exactly how a person can live as the opposite sex when every part of their body is not that sex. Genuinely. How does a person live as the opposite sex when every part of their life experience is ONLY ever them living as having the sexed body they were born with, just with extreme body modifications?

Which means they continue to navigate the world with a body that remains the sex they were body, just modified. ie. Every single experience is shaped by that person having had a body that is categorised one way and then having a body still categorised one way but just with extreme modifications that never once changes the sex of that body.

My SS has not been sold a lie. He’s been saying he doesn’t want to be a girl since around 2002. He’s never felt or wanted to be a girl.
Not every trans person is delusional. He doesn’t fit in as a girl.

It's not delusional to not want to be a girl. Unfortunately there are many societal reasons not to want to be a girl. Those reasons are no doubt a large part of what's driving the increase in girls and young women to identify as male, especially those girls and young women who are likely to find growing into a woman particularly difficult (i.e. those who are autistic and those who have experience CSA or other types of trauma). It is a delusion to think you can change sex though.

I'm a millennial I support rights of trans women to use toilets, get married, have families, present as women in their day to day life and be referred to as whatever name and pronoun they desire - these are basic rights

That does not mean I think children should be given experimental medical treatments or that rapists should be allowed into female prisons.

The former - because children often lack fundamental understanding of gender identity to undergo such invasive treatment and society lacks knowledge of potential medical cost of these procedures and drugs.

There are trans people who decided against having surgeries precisely because the risk to their health was too great, while others decided to go ahead - but those decisions were of informed adults who knew their own health history and had a complete understanding of costs vs benefits. Children can't make those decisions. Even a trans person who grows up and remains trans may regret taking heavy doses of drugs as a child if it kills their liver

The latter - because the rights of the individual end where wellbeing of others begin. I don't care about the identity of the rapist - they can be referred to as "person A" in all legal documents, as long as their presence is a risk to female inmates this person belongs in male prison.

Younger people can lose jobs for their views. Much easier to be outspoken once your working life is over.

The roots of queer theory and the way that it has been promoted to young people - which is what has led to the huge surge in young women seeking to transition.

I'm sorry you find these truths harsh - but what would be harsher still would be to discover that 10 years down the line your 'stepson' has followed the usual pattern of euphoria following transition - to an dawning awareness that the self cannot be escaped from - and the roots of dysphoria ( which usually returns) lie in the mind, in the social realm, or in the dark depths of the family psyche.

A person changing their body parts doesn’t mean anything. My mum has had a double mastectomy because of breast cancer. Doesn’t make her man and doesn’t mean someone else can claim they are a man.

People can do whatever they want to their own bodies, and they should be able to wear whatever they like. I am fully supportive if a man wants to wear a dress and makeup if it makes them feel good. But they are not women.

A man will always be a man. It’s not denying they exist, it’s the man denying what they are.

I am 5ft tall. I cannot be an air hostess because of this. If I then put platform shoes on, i can’t then claim to be 5ft 6 to get access to an air hostess job, regardless of how much i believe and want to identify as 5ft 6.

@MariaVT65 I agree (edit) to an extent- having surgeries is nor any signifier of how "real" someone's gender identity is

"bottom surgery" is a major medical procedure that carries various risks - I can completely see why some people may not want to or be able to go ahead. For example, there may be trans people with severe heart conditions - they may not want to risk going under an anaesthesia if this can pose a risk to their lives!

not to mention not everyone can afford all the surgeries

I’m really pleased that you won’t engage because your belief that Trans women are women is a biological nonsense. Transgender women are men and will always be men.

HTH

My point is that the vagina is an internal organ that cannot be seen whilst changing clothes.

You might see someone's pubic mound whilst changing clothes.

"Denying that these people even exist (born man = always man etc) won’t age well imo."

Is anyone denying that people exist that wish to be seen as their declared gender?

I don't believe that anyone is denying people exist who want to be seen as whatever gender they declare they are. However, do you (general you) accept all the genders? Or just the binary genders? And if you don't accept that a person who has declared that they are cat gender is in anyway a cat, why is that gender identity different from a male declaring that they are somehow female?

And can someone please explain please, how someone born a male person isn't always a male person?

Most Gender Zealots refuse to engage on here. That's why they stuck with No Debate for so long. Having a lack of coherent argument does that.

I'm 48 and generally supportive of all trans people having the same rights as others of the same birth sex.

Personally, while the Just Want to Pee is an issue and I'm not down playing it, there is way more to this than loos. What are your thoughts on -

Biological males being allowed to take sports opportunities and compete as women,

Biological males being able to give personal health care to elderly women who may be very frightened by this due to trauma but unable to voice concerns as "transphobic ",

All because those people say they are female?

Also, I wonder what your thoughts are on cheerleading young people who want to transition onto a path of lifelong medicine and removal of healthy body parts and organs which will lead to infertility, a high change they will never experience sexual pleasure and serious bone density issues?

All because we must be kind?

THOSE** are the things which will not age well

As soon as one drops a 'I'm not engaging so don't come at me' that tells me they have no intelligent argument to present. Which doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

And some people can be banned from MN for their views, too.
That's why I rarely post on this board nowadays.

I think younger people are turning against it or more accurately distancing themselves. They are experiencing trans peers and a lot of these have issues which quite frankly the other kids often want nothing to do with. My teen ds is gay, he baulks at having anything to do with the school LGBT +++ lot and says most of the kids who attend any of these groups are not gay but part of the +++ which is often straight kids wanting to be different