Older generations show resistance to trans rights

[Inauthentic]

"Millennials and Gen Z tend to be overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment, while older generations show far more resistance to trans rights, likely intimidated by the speed of social change."

Is this your experience?
There appears to be an overwhelming support for gender critical beliefs on Mumsnet.
Is it because it's mainly older generations engaging in this debate?

How old are you and what are your views?

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area)

Well this is gratuitously nasty.

'we forgive the older generation to much'

Anonymous2025

“The greatest villains are the ones who believe they are doing the right thing.”

Michael Rosenbaum

Hey. Well. It would be nice if women were considered and had equal consideration to transwomen then. Cos if they lose their sex based protections which gives them privacy and dignity, we'll be taking one huge step backwards from an existing position where harassment of women is already regarded as fine by far too many men (and indeed women).

We have definitely got confused about what we mean by "rights". Of course trans people should not face discrimination or harassment but somehow being treated as the opposite sex has become some kind of human right which is bonkers.

For me there are people who just have not understood the conflict between men who wish to be treated as women and womens' rights to single sex sport, spaces and services. It's all fine being open and accepting of how someone expresses themselves UNTIL you face them getting naked in the changing rooms in front of your daughter or you discover they are in a women's prison and the women are required to take birth control as a result.

There are also those who do fully understand the conflict above but believe that the wishes of the men somehow take precedence over the rights of the women.

In either case you could argue its more about thinking skills than age.

Even if he was a transwoman?

As my maths teacher used to say to me frequently
"Please show your working out"

I think often there’s also just magical thinking along the lines of:

It would be lovely if sex didn’t matter, so if as many people as possible pretend it doesn’t matter, then it won’t matter sooner.

Funny isn't it, how the 'eye rolling of youth' (fuck me this thread is ageist) is glossed over as an increasing phenomena because of youth getting fed up of the increasingly escalating demands to an unreasonable level by trans activists and the total disregard for anyone but themselves.

The whole crack with human rights is the balancing of wants, needs and protections from harm. Not a fixed hierarchy of the most vulnerable in society because that's no how real life works.

When 'trans rights' mean not facing discrimination that sounds like something everyone reasonable would agree with.

But when that discrimination turns out to involve issues with transwomen accessing single sex spaces designated for biological women (hospital wards/prisons/toilets/sports), it becomes less reasonable.

I don't understand how someone up thread can say they are supportive of some trans rights (toilets let's say) and not others (sports). In that case is some discrimination is justified but some not?

'Bathrooms' ( are you in the U.S)? are also predicated on the nature of the sexed differences between male and female. The physical and biological differences which mean that women and girls are in a greater situation of vulnerability - to male patten behaviour and male sexual urges in certain types of situation.

TW remain male even if they 'identify as' women.

My 38 year old daughter is very critical of gender ideology. She teaches in a secondary school - and she finds that many of the pupils have had enough of it all too. They make jokes all of the time, and roll their eyes. They are betweeen the ages of 11 & 18 years old. I also used to be a teacher - and 'trans' just wasn't a thing at all, even in 2010 when I left teaching.

Women want that too. HTH

Fuck lesbians.

Oh wait that's the point isn't it? The desire of males - the penised however they identify - to fuck lesbians...

It is homophobic to define any biological male as a lesbian and to suggest that lesbians are same gender attracted rather than same sex attracted.

This thread is all kinds of utterly disgusting dressed up as progressive open minded acceptance of others. Whilst calling anyone who says fucking hell the hypocrisy and abuse of women especially older women is offensive to a level off the charts.

In terms of rights, of course I believe trans people should have the same rights as anyone else, just that there is no right to make people pretend gender is a biological fact, nor is there any right to go into the opposite sex's protected spaces.

In terms of age, it might be due to growing up in the 80s when the UK was more progressive and more liberating, gender critical ideas were more in the public eye. The younger generations I've come across are far more regressive and reactionary, socially and politically. The idea of male and female essences is extremely reactionary and takes us back decades, unfortunately.

(Of course, plenty of trans people don't believe in gender essences either — it's not as if these are homogeneous masses.)

Yes. But I hope that it provides a useful illustration of both the paucity of logic and reason in the arguments made to support TWAW, and the inherent bigotry that seems to come so easily to so many gender ideology supporters.

Duh?

No, but it is possible. Being gay is just about being romantically and/or sexually attracted to someone of the same sex. 'Being gay' doesn't require anything from anyone else in order to exist. Nobody can change sex, no matter how they feel. 'Being trans' requires one to believe that there is some kind of inner soul which is itself sexed, or to believe that people can be born " in the wrong body" and so on......."Being trans' is conceptual. Being gay is not.

Nellodee

I find those who repeat an utopian trope of 'sex doesn't matter' except with your doctor or sex partner, are either people who cannot see or acknowledge the negative sexist discrimination that is still very prevalent against women, OR they fully believe that if they ignore it exists and just repeat the mantras that society will reach that utopia. I honestly doubt that they have had to think about it much for whatever reason.

Perhaps it is someone who exists in a bubble who has taken on someone's philosophical theories without critical thinking. Perhaps it is someone who has to believe that their own version of reality exists because it is too hard to cope. I don't know, I have not quite worked out how they get to that point. But all it shows to me is that lack the understanding of the dynamics of negative sexist discrimination, including how to overcome it, and the reality of the modern society in the UK as we know it. I find it bizarre to see things like that posted on a feminist board.

And how often is it accompanied by a 'feminists fought to have sex not matter'? Like some fucked up misrepresentation of what women fought for in the past.

It's grossly offensive to say 'section 28' and 'its just like being gay'.

It's Trojan horse thinking. No sorry. It's not thinking. It's repeating something someone else had said without actually having a fucking clue or engaging brain cells.

why? Not everyone is awful , my grandmother passed away recently and was one of the most amazing people who would repeatedly said “ never judge people in anything but their moral compass “ she was right . But the reality is older people get away with stuff nobody else would get away with . My oldest has autism too and every intolerante behaviour I saw towards us while out have been from older people.

I have a theory as to why TRAs say Gender Critical people are propping up the patriarchy. It's because they have inverted the meaning of lots of key words.
We know they use "man" and "woman" as if they denoted gender identity or gender (behaviour), not sex.
For example, what we call "sex markers" or "sex characteristics", their filter converts into sex stereotypes - more properly known as "gender stereotypes". And the corollary is when we talk about "gender norms", they hear "sex stereotypes". So when we say we can clearly see male sex markers - hips/neck/brow ridge, etc, they see that as us being unfairly focused on stereotypes.

When we say, "men can't become women", they hear "men should follow masculine gender norms". Or "you can't change sex" means to them that nobody can change break out of gender stereotypes.

When we talk about boundaries, they hear "limitations" as in limits on the person's potential or personal expression, of which changing gender is the most important to them. So "children should have boundaries" = children should be prevented from experimenting. "Women have boundaries" = women should be limited by gender roles. Hence a few years ago, on Hampstead Heath iirc, a group of young women shouting, terrified and enraged, that terfs could not trap them in womanhood - which of course means gendered roles to them.

And of course, "gender critical", ie critical of gender, becomes "gender is critical" - ie gendered stereotypes are essential.

There are other examples, which I can't remember now, but I think a different understanding of what words mean plus fear/unwillingness to hear the GC
side is at the heart of it. It doesn't help that they use "gender" indiscriminately to mean sex, gender identity, gender stereotypes and gender presentation.

So I think that is how they think we are "propping up the patriarchy".

We haven't had any response from the OP on the question of where the initial quote/assertion came from, or what it was based on.

https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/43194-where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights-1

'Four in ten Britons (39%) ...[believe] that allowing transgender women to use spaces like women’s toilets or changing rooms poses a “genuine risk of harm” to women. One in three (32%) say that this is not the case, while the remaining 29% are unsure.'

Strangely enough it's older women who tend to know, have participated in fighting for and understand the history of gay rights and acceptance. But that always gets ignored by the self righteous evangelical 'transwomen are women and it's just like being gay' zombies.

I think often there’s also just magical thinking along the lines of:

It would be lovely if sex didn’t matter, so if as many people as possible pretend it doesn’t matter, then it won’t matter sooner.

Maybe. But they don't seem to grasp the fact that it's gender we need to ditch, not sex. If we could genuinely magic away all of the sex-based stereotypes then there wouldn't be much reason for wanting to transition from one sex to another anyway.

And more from that Yougov survey (2022):

'On the key premise of whether Britons accept that a trans man is a man and a trans woman is a woman, there was net agreement that they are back in 2018 (+11, with 43% agreeing and 32% disagreeing in both cases).
This agreement has diminished, with Britons now split, with 38% agreeing and 40% disagreeing that a trans woman is a woman, and a 39% / 39% split on whether or not a trans man is a man (net scores of -2 and ±0, respectively).
The biggest single shift that has taken place since 2018 is over trans women’s participation in women’s sports. While this was already unpopular – back in 2018 Britons said such participation should not be allowed by 48% to 27% – sentiment is even more negative now: 61% now say trans women should not be allowed to take part in women’s sport, with just 16% believing they should.'

Being gay is not an 'identity' it is just a matter of who you are romantically and sexually attracted to. Nobody 'identifies as' gay - they either are or they are not gay. If you identify 'as' something, it presupposes that you are not that thing already - so it is a kind of performance. A performance straight out of post modernistic queer theory.