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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Thread gallery
76
Plasmodesmata · 10/04/2024 07:42

That Guardian article is a very good illustration of why they (and others like them) have been part of the problem.

SinnerBoy · 10/04/2024 07:43

Hilary Cass commenting in the Mail.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13290077/NHS-gender-treatment-children-based-remarkably-weak-evidence-landmark-report-finds.html

'This is an area of remarkably weak evidence, and yet results of studies are exaggerated or misrepresented by people on all sides of the debate.

'There are few other areas of healthcare where professionals are so afraid to openly discuss their views, where people are vilified on social media, and where name-calling echoes the worst bullying behaviour. This must stop.

NHS gender treatment for children based on 'remarkably weak evidence'

NHS gender identity services for children and young people have been based on 'remarkably weak evidence', the independent review warned.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13290077/NHS-gender-treatment-children-based-remarkably-weak-evidence-landmark-report-finds.html

Kucinghitam · 10/04/2024 07:46

Caught the R4 Today headlines this morning and was surprised by the clear language used. I will listen to the Cass interview on catch-up later.

I also read the Times summary of the key findings of the review. I kept saying to DH "this reads like the 'No Shit Sherlock' of everything MNers have been saying for fucking years!"

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 07:51

It must be noted that she's not saying no one will ever transition

She said clearly on r4 that there will be a small minority for whom medical transition will be the appropriate treatment.

However it sounds like it won't be pbs.

I'm imagining that they will be taking ok board some of the issues that Ritchie Heron had, specifically that he needed the psych support but was forced to transition to access it

Redshoeblueshoe · 10/04/2024 07:52

Ed Balls saying kids are not going to be able to get what they NEED, Kate Garraway interjected - WANT.

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2024 07:54

Redshoeblueshoe · 10/04/2024 07:52

Ed Balls saying kids are not going to be able to get what they NEED, Kate Garraway interjected - WANT.

Ed Balls. Where is your evidence for this.

Kucinghitam · 10/04/2024 07:56

Ed Balls has to say that, because [we know why].

Theeyeballsinthesky · 10/04/2024 07:58

It’ll be interesting to see if any of the high profile beee kind/what are you wims moaning about podcasts - looking at you rest is politics will cover this

and whether the like of Caitlin “won’t touch the issue with a barge pole” Moran will say anything

Brainworm · 10/04/2024 08:03

I think Hannah was pointing out that if you think a hammer is the only tool you need, you will see everything as a nail.

There are many causes of gender distress and there need to be as many treatment pathways to match this.

These treatment pathways already exist, what is needed is effective assessment to put 'patients' on the right pathway. The issue is chronic under funding across the piece.

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2024 08:07

Kucinghitam · 10/04/2024 07:56

Ed Balls has to say that, because [we know why].

I disagree. At this point no.

He is in a position of influence and this is an official report.

It was his opportunity to change tact. He chose not to. He is not acknowledging anything from the report as being valid. He is trying to undermine it's entirety.

He doesn't WANT to admit it.

He's the grown up and sometimes the adult responsibility is challenge views where appropriate because the evidence has become too overwhelming to ignore.

He's trying to not just ignore but discredit.

Key point: He did not have to put in a public appearance today

SinnerBoy · 10/04/2024 08:08

Redshoeblueshoe · Today 07:52

Ed Balls saying kids are not going to be able to get what they NEED, Kate Garraway interjected - WANT.

Is he an example of nominative determinism?

Kucinghitam · 10/04/2024 08:10

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2024 08:07

I disagree. At this point no.

He is in a position of influence and this is an official report.

It was his opportunity to change tact. He chose not to. He is not acknowledging anything from the report as being valid. He is trying to undermine it's entirety.

He doesn't WANT to admit it.

He's the grown up and sometimes the adult responsibility is challenge views where appropriate because the evidence has become too overwhelming to ignore.

He's trying to not just ignore but discredit.

Key point: He did not have to put in a public appearance today

I agree with you. But Ballsy thinks he has to carry on singing TRSOH hymn sheet, and we all know why.

Brainworm · 10/04/2024 08:11

The TRA backlash seems to fall into 2 camps. One suggesting that CASS cherry picked the research she considered. However, she used the standard protocol expected in the field of healthcare for evaluation the quality of research. The objection is around pathologising what they suggest isn't an illness. However, the report focuses only on those seeking healthcare for their distress.

Coherence has never been a strong point of TRAs, but they need to start acknowledging the sub groups that exist within their conceptualisation of who is transgender.

Those people living their bests lives whilst wearing what they like and dating who they choose etc. should carry on unaffected. Those who want healthcare due to distress, or medicine/surgery, they need to accept that there is a universal standard that must be followed - to protect them!!

Boiledbeetle · 10/04/2024 08:12

I can't be arsed trawling TRA twitter, but I did just switch to my sock account to go find IWs take on things! (You'll need to click on image my tech won't let me crop the image this morning)

Sigh.

Cass review - out on Wednesday
nauticant · 10/04/2024 08:15

Coherence has never been a strong point of TRAs, but they need to start acknowledging the sub groups that exist within their conceptualisation of who is transgender.

That would be best but it would be catastrophic from the point of view of the extreme trans activists for whom the whole point is to have a monolithic group "trans" to sit under the construct of an LGBTQ+ umbrella.

ArabellaScott · 10/04/2024 08:18

Here's the golden bridge, then.

Thank you, Hillary Cass.

OP posts:
CaptainWarbeck · 10/04/2024 08:19

Boiledbeetle · 10/04/2024 08:12

I can't be arsed trawling TRA twitter, but I did just switch to my sock account to go find IWs take on things! (You'll need to click on image my tech won't let me crop the image this morning)

Sigh.

Ironically the Cass report debunks India's deaths and genocide rhetoric

Brainworm · 10/04/2024 08:20

Has anyone yet mentioned that the NHS has confirmed there will be a review of adult services.

I feel very sorry for people of all ages today who absolutely believe that they cannot tolerate their sexed bodies and the only way out of their distress is physical treatment. It must feel desperate and that they only hope you have for happiness (or even reduced distress) is slipping away.

Whilst I think we are nearer to a position whereby better treatments will be in place to support better outcomes, I have grave concerns that the people who need to access these treatment won't be able to due to supply issues.

Mental health services, like many NHS services are chronically under funded and departments who do have funding often don't have the workforce.

CaptainWarbeck · 10/04/2024 08:24

At least people unable to tolerate their sexed bodies will no longer have the incorrect narrative that medical transition is likely to be the answer to their issues.

ResisterRex · 10/04/2024 08:29

Boiledbeetle · 10/04/2024 08:12

I can't be arsed trawling TRA twitter, but I did just switch to my sock account to go find IWs take on things! (You'll need to click on image my tech won't let me crop the image this morning)

Sigh.

Is this actionable? I'd consider it if I were SM.

ResisterRex · 10/04/2024 08:31

Ed Balls? The man who sacked a public servant on live TV? Shocked I tell you, shocked.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 10/04/2024 08:32

the pushback is going to be very heavy on the emotional blackmail/suicide/you have made children sad I hope you’re happy variety. Already happening on AIBU

Slothtoes · 10/04/2024 08:33

Haven’t had time to read anything but the BBC article. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68770641 which leads on the UK news agenda grid on the BBC website; they are definitely not hiding it away.

And apart from quoting Cass on ‘toxicity’ of debate as though ‘debate’ has always been allowed, and as though that toxicity was an equal measure coming from concerned parents, women and detransitioned people and whistleblowIng health care professionals vs angry rape and death-threat-making, attempted career-ruining TRAs.. everything reported looks sensible by BBC, everything Cass is reported to be saying looks sensible.

The government response from Sunak is particularly pathetic because this child damage is entirely on their governmental watch, they have had over ten years’ warnings and fears expressed directly to them. They have done nothing to stop this. Previous Tory governments would have introduced self ID.

Remember the Cass report is not a government report- it was commissioned by the NHS. Left to itself nothing would have been done by these Tory governments including the present one, despite apparently knowing what a woman is. So yes they bloody well should be listening to Cass And yes, the reported Labour commitment in response, to follow Cass’s recommendations from Wes Streeting looks good.

I obviously need to read more to know if anything has been missed off in the BBC headlines- for example if Cass has mentioned toxic social media climate without mentioning professional, media and parliamentary climate being stacked against evidence based research and treatment, if so then she’s missed something important…but let’s see.

But all in all I feel emotional and so relieved. Thank you so much to Cass and her team. It has taken a medic to end this sort of a medical and social scandal.

Hopefully there’s no coming back from this for the professional experimentation on distressed children. I first wrote to my (Labour) MP about this over ten years ago and got an apparently open to discussion response. Then no action at all. For years. I lost sleep over this for years with two gender distressed young people in my circle.

Finally now everything we deduced on these boards- the lack of research, the lack of follow up, the lack of holistic psychological support for the kids in psychological distress, the misinformation, the treatment options skewed by aggressive advocacy from a male sexual rights and sexual access lobby with a whole lot to gain from child transition, all must now be coming to light- I’m guessing it’s all in there.

Obviously there should be a public inquiry for full sunlight and fresh air. And let’s see what the NHS, the trans lobby Stonewall, mermaids, all of them, have to say in response and what they will do.

Until that public inquiry happens, I am thinking of all the distressed children who may or may not have had any adult to speak for them and have been harmed immensely or just never received proper or timely support and who have continued unmet needs. I am thinking the terrified parents and carers trying to raise the alarm unheeded because their experience didn’t fit the political narrative.

And I am so grateful for the women on this board past and present, who contributed to raising the alarm in so many ways and who did not give up. Thank you. Flowers

Anonymous young person looking out to sea

Hilary Cass: Weak evidence letting down children over gender care

A landmark report says "toxicity" of debate is hampering medical research into gender services.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68770641

nauticant · 10/04/2024 08:41

I haven't read the report, but I'm hearing from the reports about Cass criticising the "toxicity around the debate". Taken out of context that sounds like a "both sides" thing but I get the impression she's talking about the toxicity that made medical professionals unable to speak up about needing to exercise more care. Is that right?