Who does the police work for? A Statement by Southall Black Sisters

[IwantToRetire]

This is from October last year and I thought there was a thread about it, but if there was it has gone. So will post link to the statement from that time as there has been an update today.

On the night of Friday, the 29th September, Selma Taha, Executive Director of SBS, and her friends were verbally and physically assaulted in an extremely violent racist attack on public transport; this included pulling clumps of hair off Selma and her friend and biting Selma’s flesh, leaving a deeply embedded imprint of her teeth which necessitated a tetanus injection and antibiotics.

A Metropolitan Detective Constable was present at the scene but did nothing to de-escalate the verbal racist abuse when the assailant, a white woman, began making monkey sounds, calling Selma and her friends “bitches”, and “slaves,” and subjecting them to other vile racist slurs. Nor did he apprehend the attacker until it turned into extremely violent physical assault.

To make sense of today's statement you do read the original statement in full which is at https://southallblacksisters.org.uk/news/who-does-the-police-work-for-a-statement-by-southall-black-sisters/

Update – Violent Racist Attack on Selma Taha and Friends

On 5 October 2023, I made it known publicly that I and two friends had been the victims of racist abuse and physical violence on the tube, and that a police officer was present, off-duty, who had failed to intervene during the incident to de-escalate the situation so as to protect me and my friends.

In a development that is deeply shocking to the three of us, the CPS has now made the following charging decisions:https://southallblacksisters.org.uk/news/update-violent-racist-attack-on-selma-taha-and-friends/

I'm confused by lots in this case.

Are the magistrates chair comments a (gentle?) chastisement of both sides, that defence should have lodged judicial review already; if they intend to and made plea today and that on turn CPS shouldn't be upgrading charged at last moment?

Or have I totally misunderstood?

Its in the article.

CPS were contacted re charges and presumably as they often seem to do didn't inform anyone until the court hearing (ironically leading to a more serious charge).

And I think whether or not there can be Judicial Review wont be known for a while, but presumably by the postponed court date.

Still not getting it! I did read the article but can't quite understand the significance-as in who the comments were addressed to and was seen at being at fault.

Hopefully there will be more details at later court date and I'll get a better understanding

So yes your take on it is right IMO

More and more there doesn't seem to be straight forward legal process but learning how to play the game.

ie the woman who started the incident agreed to accept the charge against her and so has charges dropped because she made "an apology". Not sure if it means she has a record.

And it seems as likely she was offered this to save police time and money rather than justice.

So it could be that if the 3 women who haven't accepted the charges against them are now facing the process is the punishment route, as much as whether what they are alleged to have done was any worse that the initiator.

Surely the CPS wouldn’t be stupid enough to bring a case against well connected women working in social justice, unless they have pretty damning evidence?

I can understand the women feeling the abuse directed at them provoked their response, but a physical fight three on one which seems to have extended to the off duty policeman who intervened can’t be proportionate or indeed pass unchallenged.

If it’s ok for us to physically assault people who are offensive, we’re in big trouble.

I want to hear what other witnesses say. Why didn’t anyone intervene about the racist abuse, so the women didn’t feel the need to respond like that?

This thread is nuts. It’s one long “hmmm” 🤔 and excuses and justifying of utterly appalling racist abuse. Not every post, but most.
I can’t believe the tone of it to be honest.
Why didn’t anyone intervene if there was racist abuse? Have you even been on public transport at all? People don’t intervene anymore! Even police apparently.
Racism on both sides?! Now, let me think, why does that sound familiar..?
And all the suspicion that a known activist might encounter abusive behaviour and ( I think?) the implication that it’s all to make some kind of point? I can’t see the attitudes on this thread as anything other than deep seated racism towards black women and I’m really disgusted that its is on the feminist board.

Nobody on this thread has made any comment about not believing the 3 women were victims of racist abuse and actual violence.

As the person who started the thread I was asking if it is usual for a charity to issue a statement about an incident outside of work hours.

Not that I thought they shouldn't but given charity rules etc., seemed unusual.

Genuinely if there is a post that specifically says the women concerned were lying about being attacked can you say which one and I am happy to ask MNHQ to delete it.

Most have tried not to jump to any conclusions because it is an ongoing court case, and from the newspaper report today clear that the CPS is not being straightfoward.

I understand from those at the demo earlier today the main point, which is effectively the slogan for the case, is "Self defence is No offence"

I’ve reread my post and can see why it annoyed you. My question about intervention wasn’t about questioning if it happened- not at all. And I realise bystander effect is a thing. It was more a rhetorical question about how this situation should have played out differently so the women didn’t feel they needed to respond physically to disgusting abuse.

It’s like the situation in school where the child who hits out at her bullies gets punished. We can’t allow people to lash out at their tormentors, but how else are we going to stop the torment?

Is this a Judicial Review against a charging decision of the CPS? Never heard of such a thing. Has this been done before? I wouldn't even consider that the CPS had a judicial role, in any event. Very odd.

If there really is such poor evidence to charge the defendants, then why not fight it at the criminal court. Guess, we'll just have to see.

Expensive too - bags of cash maybe, some of these charities.

@sawdustformypony I hadn't heard of it either despite 22 years in the CJS!

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/appeals-judicial-review-cps-prosecuting-decisions

I'm await the details of their appeal with great interest - nothing stacks up for me so far.

There is a very short timescale for judicial review, the barrier to success is very high and its expensive. I wouldnt think they have a chance and would be better putting the effort into defending the case.

I understand that SBS have been in receipt of funding from the immensely wealthy Triodos Foundation, a charitable subsidiary of Triodos Bank, an extremely controversial Dutch "ethical" bank that funds a variety of controversial organisations including many described as "cults".

The Triodos bank has strong links to the Rudolf Steiner movement, an occult movement with a racist philosophy as its foundation, so it really is an extraordinary situation that an apparently anti-racist organisation accepts funds from a controversial donor whose philosophical foundations are entrenched in supernatural ideas about racial hierarchies, with darker skinned people existing on the primitive, lower rungs.

What does it all mean in relation to the incident/s described in this thread?

I have absolutely no idea. Maybe something, maybe nothing, but in a post truth world where we are all invited to accept subjective "truths" as facts, I will wait to see what hard evidence turns up before jumping to conclusions

Links for the curious here

The Bank that likes to say ‘Quack’: Triodos
https://www.quackometer.net/blog/2012/07/triodos-bank-that-likes-to-say-quack.html

1. Investment assets

Freehold property – at valuation At beginning of the year Additions Revaluation in year At end of the year 2019 2018 ££ 625,000 625,000 31,938 - (56,938) - 600,000 625,000 The property was revalued at 31 March 2019 by a local estate agent based on open market valuation. The property is subject to a legal charge held by Triodos Bank NV in respect of a loan, which stood at £61,324 at 31 March 2019 (2018: £73,353), see note 9. This represents 10% of the value of the property (2018: 12%). https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search?p_p_id=uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet&p_p_lifecycle=2&p_p_state=maximized&p_p_mode=view&p_p_resource_id=%2Faccounts-resource&p_p_cacheability=cacheLevelPage&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet_objectiveId=A9995892&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet_priv_r_p_mvcRenderCommandName=%2Ffull-print&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet_priv_r_p_organisationNumber=3970913

The Wayback Machine pages of the Triodos Bank that boasts of its support of the SBS are now diverted, as are the relevant pages on the SBS website.

It was some years ago when I discovered the links, archived them and took screen shots, however Triodos were also funding controversial Buddhist movements that claimed to be about peace, love, inclusion and happiness but were also described as abusive by many former members (this is how I learned about Triodos initially) so the inclusion of SBS in Triodos's examples of organisations they supported SBS was a shock to me.

I suppose it could be that the SBS didn't know about the underlying racist beliefs of the Rudolph Steiner movement but I would have thought that, as an anti-racist organisation, it would have been their job to know about that kind of thing?

Again, maybe unrelated to the issue on this thread, I really don't know, but I cannot help but feel deeply uneasy about the SBS being in receipt of either donations or loans from Triodos

Would it be possible to think that Steiner may have been racist, but the educational philosophy that grew from his work no longer is?

I’ve heard a lot of criticism of Steiner but my DC went for a while and there was only support and acceptance of children there with massive challenges. I won’t list them, because some really are genuinely outing, but they managed some extremely complex situations.

There were weaknesses- safeguarding/health and safety was dire, and some children didn’t make the educational progress they should have. There were weird notes of anxiety around Harry Potter, for example. I’d go with eccentric as a fair descriptor.

Of course that was one school. Others may have been less accepting.

This is a really good question

Personally I think the movement is rotten and deeply concerning, however there may be individual teachers who do not believe in the racist and other extremely dodgy ideas (e.g. re children with Downs)

I have met many adults who claim to have loved their time at Steiner Schools which they say are good for the arts, however Steiner Schools are pockets of anti-vaccine resistance, which harms children and this is reflected in the new age and conspiratorial beliefs of the adults I have met, all of whom are white

I will try to find some links later, sorry no time right now

I would be genuinely interested to hear from SBS regarding their thoughts on accepting money from Triodos

Don’t dig them out for me- I no longer have an interest as mine are all grown up.
The school they went to was majority white, but not entirely. I would say it was broadly representative of the community.

The next school they went to was majority black, so they had plenty of variety.

I understand that SBS have been in receipt of funding from the immensely wealthy Triodos Foundation, a charitable subsidiary of Triodos Bank, an extremely controversial Dutch "ethical" bank that funds a variety of controversial organisations including many described as "cults".

I think you need to provide evidence of this, particularly as you use this "understanding" to then launch into a complete derail about cults!!

I presume you have bothered to check their accounts which will be available as they are a charity.

100%

Indeed. But this board has proven time and time again that they are only feminists and supporters of white women. Everyone else gets shot down by endless whataboutary and get told that what they are experiencing as black and brown women isn't what they are experiencing.🙄

Mumsnet in general and this section of the forum in particular is a very dangerous place to be for black,
brown women and their allies.

Disclaimer: posting as white ally.

Do you really think that, when you reread? I can see flashes where that impression may be given, one of which was mine, but I apologised and explained what I meant. It was open to interpretation, with hindsight, but was not casting doubt on the account.

For clarity, I haven’t seen it discussed elsewhere so am going purely on what’s been said on this thread.

I cam imagine they would if, say, they were contacted by a very smug reporter who somehow knew all about it already, almost as though they'd been contacted by somebody with a 'Guess who we've just had brought in?'.

It sounds like the white woman accepted an out of court disposal ie a caution, which involves admitting that you carried out the offence and it not being escalated to the CPS ie the case is disposed off out of the court process.

Aside from anything else, I'm deeply shocked that a black person can be accused of anything racially aggravated against a white person. Isn't the point of racial aggravation that it about structural racism, not calling someone who ultimately has more power than you a 'white bitch' or whatever?

From facebook

An update from our Executive Director, Selma Taha, on the case against her and her friends.
https://www.facebook.com/Southall.Black.Sisters/posts/pfbid02JJ73c6HEQZJGdRyUvdQLB2X4bUn118ME9C2ue2C8fKzypLPKoMGwtdc8dhEXwwhAl

(you just need to close the log in box to read)

It says 'March' rather than 'April'. This must be so stressful for them all.

That’s a shit show. ‘Mistakenly issued a less serious charge than intended’?!