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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

KjK "insane rant" thread 2

1000 replies

AdamRyan · 03/04/2024 18:10

First thread filled up just as it was getting interesting

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5036512-kjks-insane-rant

So let's keep it going. My characterisation if the two basic positions are:

1)KJK is a stone cold legend, haters gonna hate but many women will give her cash to bathe in champagne

  1. KJK is taking right wing positions for clicks and cash, most recently criticising a doctors conference to stay relevant.

Happy to discuss further. There are some particular posts I want to respond to which I will c&p below

KJK’s insane rant | Mumsnet

Kjk’s decision to attack everyone who is not her lapdog is increasingly destructive. It looks like Can-sg put on a great conference. Those doctors who...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5036512-kjks-insane-rant

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Thread gallery
102
DrSpartacular · 08/04/2024 10:25

andforthatminuteablackbirdsang · 08/04/2024 02:23

I keep coming across that cartoon and it bothers me because it is so one sided and one dimensional. It's not true that the left has moved further left. Possibly it might appear that way if you came of age during New Labour and you just want to shine a light on the past decade, but I go way back - does no-one remember the Militant Tendency?

Since the Blair years, the left has gathered a strange collection of ideas to its bosom (for example queer theory/trans ideology), reactionary ideas that piggyback on the notion of fairness and force-team T into LGB rights. These ideas have nothing to do with what I understand socialism to be: keeping a society healthy and functioning through some form of redistribution of wealth and resources, a fundamental idea of treating people equally.

That was Corbyn's major fail for me: he absolutely didn't get that to have a successful multicultural society everyone - everyone, with no exceptions - must be treated equally. The SNP have gone even further down that divisive and insane road to nowhere - juggling with so many people's competing rights, forgetting that the most fundamental division, shared by all people of all colours, sexualities and classes everywhere, shared by every single person alive (born of a man's sperm and a woman's egg), is the competing needs of men and women. If you don't start building equality there you're going to get nowhere. [Oops. Derailed myself. 😮]

As for the right, with the Brexit campaign, Farage and UKIP (as Adam said the BNP became UKIP and latterly Reform), the Tories have tried repeatedly to woo the voters they lost to UKIP back into the fold, and that means they have moved further and further to the right to accommodate them. They are performatively cruel (looking at you in particular Suella). It's bizarre. It's scary. The right has definitely moved much further right, which is not reflected in that cartoon that people keep posting.

Sorry to bang on - I've posted this before - but the idea I keep coming back to is crystalised in Adam Curtis' Hypernormalisation.

s

I don't mean to suggest that Putin is destabilising us (though of course he is), I mean that as much as there's lobbying of our government by billionaire individuals and corporate interests, we ourselves are directly lobbied through social media and then again at arms length by the paid-for politicians posturing for us and wooing us.

In this context, when I look, for example, at the scenes in Edinburgh on Saturday, at TRAs drowning out women's voices, I'm angry. But I also think, these people are not our enemy. They're young, they're deluded. They should be demonstrating with rage because they have no secure housing, no secure jobs, no secure climate, world or worldview because they were born into late stage corporate cannibalism, reared with iphones in their hands. They are children of the state, children of the machine. They are deluded, brainwashed and confused. They have no context in the way that older people do.

I feel as sad for them as I feel angry. Anyway @DrSpartacular, I think the cartoon is one dimensional, and there's a lot more going on here.

Oh I agree the cartoon is crude and one dimensional, but it represents the way that formerly centrist positions are now framed by some on the left as conservative/right-wing/far-right.

Whilst at the same time the left seems to have embraced individualism via identity politics which to me is anathema to the collectivism which should be at the heart of left wing politics and economics.

OldCrone · 08/04/2024 10:28

NefertitiV · 08/04/2024 10:17

@OldCrone

We seem to have a misunderstanding based on terminology. I thought KJK was being accused of being a Nazi. It seems she was just being accused of being a Thatcherite. (Although I think she'd disagree with that as well.)

I don't think she's a Nazi. Idiots dressed as Nazis turn up at her events and it is unclear exactly why and if anyone in particular funds/invites them.

TRAs also turn up at her events and it is unclear exactly why and if anyone in particular funds/invites them.

Dumbo12 · 08/04/2024 10:30

Just to return to the word groomer, I'm concerned that some posters feel that the word should no longer be used. If that word is not used, because some people have misused it to insult others, then the girls who have been abused no longer have a word to describe the people who worked to prepare them for that abuse.
It mirrors the removal of the word women from our vocabulary, to suit men.

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 10:49

Dumbo12 · 08/04/2024 10:30

Just to return to the word groomer, I'm concerned that some posters feel that the word should no longer be used. If that word is not used, because some people have misused it to insult others, then the girls who have been abused no longer have a word to describe the people who worked to prepare them for that abuse.
It mirrors the removal of the word women from our vocabulary, to suit men.

Noone feels the word "should no longer be used". That's a strawman.

I feel the word should be used to describe situations which are grooming, and not as a politicised insult.

Did you read the article about twitter, out of interest?

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Dumbo12 · 08/04/2024 10:55

I am now making the decision to no longer respond to posters who are either unable or unwilling to post in good faith. Having seen very similar behaviour on another thread, I have decided that the discussion is no longer useful. I guess the same poster will do the same on any thread, as a means of silencing women.

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 10:57

OldCrone · 08/04/2024 10:06

I'm aware it was Hellofabore's post. You chose though to bold a sentence of the post - the part the says Mundine is a former ALP member. Mundine has little respect in Australia, particularly among his own indigenous people.

I didn't choose to bold that sentence. The bolded part was bolded in the original post by Hellofabore, as she was quoting someone else (so not her words either). This was quite clear in the context of the original post.

That's extreme far-right.

So in your terminology, 'far right' is CPAC, who align with the right wing conservative politics of people like Thatcher and Reagan. What I would call far right (fascism, Nazis, the BNP) you refer to as 'extreme far right'.

We seem to have a misunderstanding based on terminology. I thought KJK was being accused of being a Nazi. It seems she was just being accused of being a Thatcherite. (Although I think she'd disagree with that as well.)

Oh my goodness. Thats massive false equivalence.
Personally I'd say CPAC are far right, but using the language of Thatcher to legitimise themselves. They are harking back to a golden era of "strong leaders". It is a fascist tactic.

The far-right BNP under Nick Griffin also tried to legitimise themselves, and I'd argue have finally succeeded by eventually evolving into Reform.

I don't think anyone on here is accusing KJK of being a Nazi or a Thatcherite. At risk of going round the hamster wheel again, I think posters are saying ^she does and says things that appeal to the far right".

And if you believe (as I do) that CPAC are far right, then she has links to the far right.

Her personal politics are kind of irrelevant.

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OldCrone · 08/04/2024 11:04

Personally I'd say CPAC are far right, but using the language of Thatcher to legitimise themselves.

So you're using far right in the same way as I use it, not in the way NefertitiV uses it?

And if you believe (as I do) that CPAC are far right, then she has links to the far right.

In your opinion. If CPAC are Thatcherite rather than Nazi, then she doesn't (assuming my definition of the far right, not NefertitiV's).

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/04/2024 11:06

I keep coming across that cartoon and it bothers me because it is so one sided and one dimensional. It's not true that the left has moved further left. Possibly it might appear that way if you came of age during New Labour and you just want to shine a light on the past decade, but I go way back - does no-one remember the Militant Tendency?

It's an American cartoon so reflects the landscape there.

OldCrone · 08/04/2024 11:07

Dumbo12 · 08/04/2024 10:55

I am now making the decision to no longer respond to posters who are either unable or unwilling to post in good faith. Having seen very similar behaviour on another thread, I have decided that the discussion is no longer useful. I guess the same poster will do the same on any thread, as a means of silencing women.

If it's the thread I'm thinking of, she seems to be having difficulty on that thread in understanding quite simple concepts.

Astonishing from someone who claims to have a PhD.

Dumbo12 · 08/04/2024 11:08

OldCrone · 08/04/2024 11:07

If it's the thread I'm thinking of, she seems to be having difficulty on that thread in understanding quite simple concepts.

Astonishing from someone who claims to have a PhD.

Indeed

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 11:09

Nazis mingle openly at CPAC, spreading antisemitic conspiracy theories and finding allies. The presence of these extremists has been a persistent issue at CPAC, and in previous years conference organizers have ejected well-known Nazis and white supremacists such as Nick Fuentes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/rcna140335

From Yiannopoulos to Nigel Farage, Tommy Robinson, Gavin McInnes and Southern, there is no shortage of hard right and far-right tourists keen to cash in on an apparent demand for their services in Australia, or promoters wanting a piece of the action.

The kind of threatened conservatism they’re selling is transnational and it already has a place in Australia.

When the powerful Conservative Political Action Conference arrives in Sydney next week, it will not only be joining a much larger play for a slice of a thriving market but representing the biggest and most mainstream effort so far.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/03/cpac-how-australias-rightwing-speaking-circuit-went-from-pr-stunt-to-cash-cow

Podcaster with history of racially abusing Indigenous Australians featured at conference chaired by Warren Mundine

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/102847128

At the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Australia at the weekend, a grab-bag of current and former Australian senators, Trump associates, and former UKIP party leader and Brexit campaigner, Nigel Farage, each leveraged these themes to rouse their audience into a war footing. And every time they did, it was matters of race that would emerge as the prevailing theme

https://www.vice.com/en/article/z34qd5/even-conservatives-hate-conservative-politicians-in-australia

CPAC is not "Thatcherite". That is actually very offensive to Thatcherite Conservatives. CPAC is a parasite on them, from the look of this.

Even Conservatives Hate Conservative Politicians in Australia

At CPAC Australia, the Liberal Party’s “cowardice” took centre stage.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/z34qd5/even-conservatives-hate-conservative-politicians-in-australia

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AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 11:12

OldCrone · 08/04/2024 11:04

Personally I'd say CPAC are far right, but using the language of Thatcher to legitimise themselves.

So you're using far right in the same way as I use it, not in the way NefertitiV uses it?

And if you believe (as I do) that CPAC are far right, then she has links to the far right.

In your opinion. If CPAC are Thatcherite rather than Nazi, then she doesn't (assuming my definition of the far right, not NefertitiV's).

They aren't Thatcherite.
Their main campaign in Aus has been anti the Indigenous Voice referendum. I cannot see that ever being a policy of Thatchers.

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OldCrone · 08/04/2024 11:12

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/04/2024 11:06

I keep coming across that cartoon and it bothers me because it is so one sided and one dimensional. It's not true that the left has moved further left. Possibly it might appear that way if you came of age during New Labour and you just want to shine a light on the past decade, but I go way back - does no-one remember the Militant Tendency?

It's an American cartoon so reflects the landscape there.

Yes, there are huge differences in the political landscape between the UK, the US and Australia. Just because we speak the same language (sort of) doesn't mean that the politics have anything in common.

OldCrone · 08/04/2024 11:13

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 11:12

They aren't Thatcherite.
Their main campaign in Aus has been anti the Indigenous Voice referendum. I cannot see that ever being a policy of Thatchers.

Well, no, of course not, because we don't have an indigenous population analogous to the one in Australia.

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 11:14

Dumbo12 · 08/04/2024 10:55

I am now making the decision to no longer respond to posters who are either unable or unwilling to post in good faith. Having seen very similar behaviour on another thread, I have decided that the discussion is no longer useful. I guess the same poster will do the same on any thread, as a means of silencing women.

I guess the same poster will do the same on any thread, as a means of silencing women
🙄

Have you not read some of the eloquent posts by other women on this thread about how they have been silenced?

Having a difference of political opinion is not "silencing women". You are doing the right wing equivalent of "you are erasing me!" from TRAs.

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AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 11:19

OldCrone · 08/04/2024 11:13

Well, no, of course not, because we don't have an indigenous population analogous to the one in Australia.

Thatcher 100% would not have been a Brexiteer. In fact Brexiteers like Farage have shat on one of her key achievements (our veto). Farage is a CPAC hero.

The "thatcherite" thing is rewriting history to legitimise themselves. Thatcher was not focussed on issues of race and "national identity" (whatever else you think about her).

In fact:

https://flashbak.com/34-great-and-terrible-conservative-party-election-posters-1909-2001-33255/screen-shot-2015-04-01-at-09-42-21/

A newspaper advert for the British Conservative Party from the General Election, circa 1978. It depicts a man with the caption 'Labour says he's black. Tories say he's British. Conservative'. Advert by Saatchi & Saatchi. - Flashbak

A newspaper advert for the British Conservative Party from the General Election, circa 1978. It depicts a man with the caption 'Labour says he's black. Tories say he's British. Conservative'. Advert by Saatchi & Saatchi.

https://flashbak.com/34-great-and-terrible-conservative-party-election-posters-1909-2001-33255/screen-shot-2015-04-01-at-09-42-21

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AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 11:21

OldCrone · 08/04/2024 11:07

If it's the thread I'm thinking of, she seems to be having difficulty on that thread in understanding quite simple concepts.

Astonishing from someone who claims to have a PhD.

When in doubt, attack someone's intellect.

You seem to be having problems with the idea that CPAC are pretty extreme, despite all the evidence being put in front of you. I wonder why?

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OldCrone · 08/04/2024 11:33

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 11:21

When in doubt, attack someone's intellect.

You seem to be having problems with the idea that CPAC are pretty extreme, despite all the evidence being put in front of you. I wonder why?

Quoting a load of left-wing sources is not evidence. Can you post some right wing ones for balance?

(I have looked, and the Telegraph has a few positive articles about CPAC which seem to be mainly about Liz Truss and Trump. Neither are people I admire.)

I don't yet know enough about CPAC to form an opinion, but people just shouting 'fascist' really doesn't help.

Dumbo12 · 08/04/2024 11:53

Can anyone explain why disagreement is interpreted, by some, as being indicative of ones political standing?
In my distant youth women's rights tended to be advocated for by left leaning women, I find it hard to believe that those who continue to argue against sexist female stereotypes, are now all raging right wingers and extremists.

NefertitiV · 08/04/2024 12:43

Dumbo12 · 08/04/2024 11:53

Can anyone explain why disagreement is interpreted, by some, as being indicative of ones political standing?
In my distant youth women's rights tended to be advocated for by left leaning women, I find it hard to believe that those who continue to argue against sexist female stereotypes, are now all raging right wingers and extremists.

All we are suggesting here is Posie Parker is being sponsored by CPAC. Some of her tweets lean into extremist far-right. So I don't think you could consider her to be on the left at all.

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 13:06

OldCrone · 08/04/2024 11:33

Quoting a load of left-wing sources is not evidence. Can you post some right wing ones for balance?

(I have looked, and the Telegraph has a few positive articles about CPAC which seem to be mainly about Liz Truss and Trump. Neither are people I admire.)

I don't yet know enough about CPAC to form an opinion, but people just shouting 'fascist' really doesn't help.

I don't have a telegraph subscription and am limited by what's available without pay wall. Happy to read anything you want to put forward from an "approved" source. I have no idea if those are mainly left wing.

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AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 13:16

I'm enjoying the twitter accidentally linked upthread. Very polarised opinions. A bit like on here

https://x.com/AnneJirsch/status/1777220025746612465

https://x.com/SVPhillimore/status/1777241603423240633

Plus - WTAF? Trying to decide if this delightful religious iconography deserves a thread of its own. I bet JKR is cringing....this is what I was talking about when I said people act like some are the messiah

https://x.com/FeedingCrocs/status/1777100693670679010

Screenshot for ppl without twix access

KjK "insane rant" thread 2
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NefertitiV · 08/04/2024 13:18

@OldCrone

Quoting a load of left-wing sources is not evidence. Can you post some right wing ones for balance?

The issue with that would be the sources would be more favourable, wouldn't they? I did try this, though, with the Google search 'CPAC fox news', and interestingly enough some diverse articles came up. Some suggested CPAC's 'talent' have dropped off somewhat in the last couple of years due to various scandals and jailings.

NefertitiV · 08/04/2024 13:24

@AdamRyan

That JKR image - Confused I mean, she's wonderful, but to deify her?

AdamRyan · 08/04/2024 13:26

Here you go. I would characterise the content of this as "far right":

  • shadowy threat from an "extremist fringe" who are "bullying and threatening democracy"
  • need to "defend the nation" and the underpinning of our culture, Judeo-Christianity
  • threatening WW3 if Trump isn't re-elected

https://www.gbnews.com/news/nigel-farage-cpac-washington-trump-extremist-frince

It is very hard for me to see that as anything other than far right.

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