KjK "insane rant" thread 2

[AdamRyan]

First thread filled up just as it was getting interesting

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5036512-kjks-insane-rant

So let's keep it going. My characterisation if the two basic positions are:

1)KJK is a stone cold legend, haters gonna hate but many women will give her cash to bathe in champagne

2. KJK is taking right wing positions for clicks and cash, most recently criticising a doctors conference to stay relevant.

Happy to discuss further. There are some particular posts I want to respond to which I will c&p below

“I'm entitled to that opinion. Regardless of what you and "the other women" think.”

Thats fine. Hold that opinion. I’ll carry on having my opinion which I’m entitled to have. I will base it on the evidence of my own eyes.

This is ridiculous.

Adam you do sound obsessed. If she's so unimportant to you and your feminism, why let her take up headspace. I don't get it.

Where is this other place @AdamRyan ? Also did Venice Allen start the speakers corner thing?! Are you saying kjk didn’t start adult human female and didn’t start LWS initiative either?

I've been without WiFi for a day, catching up on this thread is like homework 🙃

Oh sorry, megaphones. I forgot the need to be completely literal about this

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5607919/amp/Transgender-activist-battered-radical-feminist-Speakers-Corner-brawl.html

Dr Long told Hendon Magistrates' Court: 'At one point I started singing into the megaphone which one of my friends had brought.
^'It was quite jovial, it was not hostile on my part. I was not chanting or shouting.
'While I was doing that one of the trans activists came and shouted into the megaphone. That was quite harassing for me to have that intrusion into my space.^

My recollection is there were lots of feminists doing amazing grassroots things around 2017/2018.

The Julia Long/Venice Allan/Maria Macauley protest sticks in my mind.

An event in Bristol called "we need to talk" where women were terrified by TRAs (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/26/trans-rights-protest-gender-critical)

There was an amazing woman, I can't remember if we found out who she was, that signed up for her local pool as a man and went to male only sessions in her cossie and flowery hat.

Sometime around then KJK got arrested and it came out she was Posie Parker on here. And she did the billboard thing.

Then (I think) this all amalgamated around WPUK and events where women were talking about what happened to them. There was one in the HoC that I remember.

I had various other shit going on and lost track of the ins and outs at that point, so the whole WPUK/KJK thing kind of passed me by. I was a bit surprised about that when I re-engaged. And even more surprised by this rewriting of history as if none of those women ever did anything.

This is also partly why I personally am upset because this board has meant so much to me over the years, partly because if the amazing stuff women on here did in solidarity, without a need for a "leader" or complete ideological purity. Hey ho. Nothing lasts forever.

The phrase "cult of personality" came into my head while I was walking the dog, so I googled it.

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-a-cult-of-personality-5191337

According to Weber, charisma is a “certain quality of an individual personality [under] which he is considered extraordinary and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman or at least especially exceptional powers or qualities.”

Meanwhile, charismatic authority depends on individual followers’ devotion to and trust in an individual leader. In this context, followers’ perception of the leader is crucial to maintaining their legitimacy, so the media is used to create and promote a larger-than-life image of the leader.

Another feature of charismatic authority is that it’s frequently critical of existing institutions and seeks to bring about some form of change, which could constitute anything from a previous idealized time to revolutionary reform

Innate, surely?!

Really? I mean sure, you must be somewhat predisposed to want to do it, but you wouldn't apply that much effort unless it was somehow rewarded in some sort of social grouping?

Unless you're saying it's totally unconscious?

(So what you're saying is...)

It wasn't a thing Adam, I was there.

It was a rendezvous point. It could've been been anywhere. Venice picked there, because the meeting was held at the university women's club and Venice needed to wait for both confirmation and to make sure everyone had the postcode on a piece of paper, but TRAs were be kept in the dark.

Really? You think everything anyone does is fot social approval?

What about, I don't know, stamp collectors or people who avidly read about world history?

The Julia Long/Venice Allan/Maria Macauley protest sticks in my mind.

It's Maria MacLachlan. And Lily Maynard at the pool, with our very own Sweary Godmother and Man Friday.

OK. Well it most definitely was "a thing" on here and woke loads of women up to what was going on with TRAs. It was outrageous.

If it wasn't "a thing" why on earth were the TRAs aware or interested? Why did Julia Long's friend bring a megaph9ne?

I'm wondering why you are minimising the impact of this "non-thing" event? Anyone can advanced search on here or Google about it.

My recollection is there were lots of feminists doing amazing grassroots things around 2017/2018.
Indeed there were, and many came out of FWR (eg Fair Play for Women, Mayday, Man Friday)

The Julia Long/Venice Allan/Maria Macauley protest sticks in my mind.
It wasn't a protest, it was a rendezvous prior to a WNTT event.

An event in Bristol called "we need to talk" where women were terrified by TRAs(https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/26/trans-rights-protest-gender-critical
WNTT at the Jam Jar. Where KJK spoke for the first time.

There was an amazing woman, I can't remember if we found out who she was, that signed up for her local pool as a man and went to male only sessions in her cossie and flowery hat.
Amy Desir, which resulted in the formation of Man Friday, and the first Hampstead Ladies Pond protest at the men's pond.

Sometime around then KJK got arrested and it came out she was Posie Parker on here. And she did the billboard thing.
Her identity was never a secret, she was speaking as Posie Parker from the start.

Then (I think) this all amalgamated around WPUK and events where women were talking about what happened to them. There was one in the HoC that I remember.
WPUK was formed after and in response to the assault of Maria at speaker's corner. Venice Allan was the instigator of the first HoC meeting.

Before all this there had been RadFem events at Conway Hall which were the precursors to the later meetings/events concerned about the conflicting women's/trans rights stuff.

Exactly. This is the exact time line.

OK. Well it most definitely was "a thing" on here and woke loads of women up to what was going on with TRAs. It was outrageous.

If it wasn't "a thing" why on earth were the TRAs aware or interested? Why did Julia Long's friend bring a megaph9ne?

Yes, it was a big thing at the time as Venice had huge problems organising the meeting, it was originally a debate but the other side pulled out, and then the venue cancelled. The protesting preceded the rendezvous having started as soon as the event was first publicised, resulting in the venue cancelling, so of course they were interested and oppositional. They wanted Venice and her meeting stopped.

Of course it was an incident. But it wasn't a precursor to Posie Parker using speakers corner as a venue.

It was a meet up point. It could've been a street corner.

It's really not uncommon for a megaphone-wielding friend to be in the vicinity of Julia Long, she is known for her singing at gatherings. And the rendezvous was a gathering even if it wasn't the actual event.

You've said you weren't around at that time Adam which is why you are getting things wrong, understandably, but maybe stop presenting second and third hand info as fact.

If I am an actual fangirl to anyone it’s Dr Julia Long, with Helen Joyce in second place.

(I’m deffo not really KJK’s lapdog, iirc she has pugs and my dogs of choice are as far from pugs as it’s possible to get and still be pet canines, retired greyhounds)

What point are you trying to make Adam regarding events that happened in 2018 in relation to people's current opinions of KJK? I'm really not sure what it is you are so intrigued with.

Grasping at straws here, give the lack of clarity, but some kind of discrediting due to lack of originality / riding others' coattails? 🤷‍♀️🤔

It's a testament to the patience and kindness of women on here that so many posters take the trouble to write out actual events for a poster whose googling skills aren't up to much. And one who when Datun (who was there) explains details about what happened, then responds with a snide :
"I'm wondering why you are minimising the impact of this "non-thing" event?"

I'm in awe of all of you - especially as it's to a poster who repeatedly rubbishes women's accounts, experiences and testimony on this and other threads.

Adam appears to be implying that KJK piggybacked on an already established campaigning process at speakers corner.

What do you mean? The Venice Allan thing at speakers corner? That wasn't a thing. It was a rendezvous point.. Yes. The thing where women with microphones spoke out, long before KJK did it. The thing where a woman was physically assaulted by a TRA for daring to be there."

She's got it wrong. It wasn't a place for campaigning. It was literally a place to meet to find out where the venue of Venice's WNTT was going to be.

The reason it was targeted by transactivists was because they found out that we were going to be there. And while we were waiting, they kicked off.

Plus it was at night. It was dark!

I think Adam feels that other women were working alongside KJK initially, and that they have become invisible as KJK dominates.

I wonder how that came about? I remember it was a group effort initially- she wasn’t alone with the billboard. I assumed women fell away as they had other things to do, or were caught up in other parts of the same work, or perhaps weren’t able to risk being as visible a target as KJK has been.