KjK "insane rant" thread 2

[AdamRyan]

First thread filled up just as it was getting interesting

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5036512-kjks-insane-rant

So let's keep it going. My characterisation if the two basic positions are:

1)KJK is a stone cold legend, haters gonna hate but many women will give her cash to bathe in champagne

2. KJK is taking right wing positions for clicks and cash, most recently criticising a doctors conference to stay relevant.

Happy to discuss further. There are some particular posts I want to respond to which I will c&p below

This Feminist Current article lays out the basic facts of that OG WNTT event.

https://www.feministcurrent.com/2017/09/15/historic-speakers-corner-becomes-site-anti-feminist-silencing-violence/

KJK has repeatedly given props to Venice Allen for sparking various ideas that KJK has then taken to fruition. No stealing of anyone’s ideas, just brainstorming* together.

*fuck I hate that word.

Here we go:

2016 "Thinking Differently: Feminists Questioning Gender Politics"

2012 "RadFem 2012" which if you Google will bring up a plethora of articles bemoaning its women only stance.

Interestingly, FiLiA didn't address the gendered elephant in the room until 2018.

Except that is not what I'm suggesting; that is what her detractors suggest....

I think you are maybe lacking a little humour on this issue, and are maybe a little too precious about being politically correct; which is something that KJK is clearly not prone to. She speaks in plain, clear and unvarnished language.

I wouldn't say I'm a fan of KJK; I'm not "a fan" of anyone in particular, certainly not politicians or the like. She's doing her 'thing,' and that thing works for some people, and not others.

I prefer my idols to be untouchable, unreachable, unobtainable, and sometimes absolutely gorgeous. Usually long haired rock gods with amazing or distinctive voices and great stage presence.

Really? Do they? Hmmm maybe i was to quick telling the Ringtons man I wasn't interested

And I appreciate I'm late to this, but I've been busy today!

Sometime around then KJK got arrested and it came out she was Posie Parker on here. And she did the billboard thing.

Then (I think) this all amalgamated around WPUK and events where women were talking about what happened to them. There was one in the HoC that I remember.

Do you mean this meeting in the HoC?

https://lilymaynard.com/transgenderism-and-the-war-on-women-house-of-commons-14-3-18/

KJK spoke at that one.

This is also partly why I personally am upset because this board has meant so much to me over the years, partly because if the amazing stuff women on here did in solidarity, without a need for a "leader" or complete ideological purity.

She's not our leader. And you seem to be the only one arguing for 'complete ideological purity'.

And even more surprised by this rewriting of history as if none of those women ever did anything.

Just because you don't know what they're doing Adam, doesn't mean they're not doing anything.

They are.

Thanks Adam for sending me off on a trip down memory lane, I've just re-watched KJK's Jam Jar talk, and I think even you would be hard pressed to find fault here:

Sorry, what? I don't think I've said anything incompatible with what you've said. I was definitely on the board in the Maria Mac/Speakers Corner time. Had a period of being less active shortly after.

Just for info you and Datun also disagree on the name of the pool person, which shows noone's memory is infallible. (I think it was Amy not Lily).

I'm going to say my usual answer. I was responding to someone's question. As I usually am. They asked if my recollection was it wasn't KJK who started the whole "women speaking"/woman = adult human female thing.

Maybe just look at the post I quote for a clue as to context

It wasn't a thing Adam, I was there.

It was a rendezvous point. It could've been been anywhere. Venice picked there, because the meeting was held at the university women's club and Venice needed to wait for both confirmation and to make sure everyone had the postcode on a piece of paper, but TRAs were be kept in the dark.

As Datun knows, so was I, and this is completely right. I still have a photo of the address of the actual talk on my phone that I took on the night just before leaving to go there. The original talk was going to be at Lewisham library but they cancelled the day before due to pressure from TRAs. I was in a message group with the organisers (there were about 5 women) including Venice.

Man Friday was a movement but it was mostly led by Amy Desir and Hannah Clarke.

https://www.letawomanspeak.org/hannah-clarke

You make no sense I'm afraid.

Do you mean this meeting in the HoC?

https://lilymaynard.com/transgenderism-and-the-war-on-women-house-of-commons-14-3-18/

KJK spoke at that one.

She did, and I think that was her first speaking engagement at a meeting. She was a last minute addition as I think the arrest had only just happened a week or so before. I met her and spoke to her for the first time there and I was really impressed by her. I remember saying she should go on TV to talk about this if there were any opportunities.

It was such a busy and exciting time post Speakers Corner wasn't it?

Exactly this. Plus the repeated point I should be somehow grateful to KJK.

I'm considerably less grateful to her than I am to Julia Long/Amy Desir/Kathleen Stock/Julie Bindel/JKR/TinselAngel. My impression is she came in on the coat tails of other people's work.

And some of those people probably came in on the coat tails of the anonymous FWR posters on here when I started posting around 2012/2013. The absolute sheros like GenderTrender, getting shut down constantly for just posting news stories about sexually incontinent TW. When if you googled feminism you got "Every Day Feminism" as your top result and Riley Dennis lecturing "why your genital preferences are transphobic" with a straight face. When if you even dared to hint that maybe TW are not W you'd get called transphobic, lose friends and risk being sacked.

And before that, when we were still babies there were feminists like Germaine Greer talking about it.

She is not that special. Like I say "cult of personality".

OK let's try shorter words.

A poster asked me a question. I replied. So I was not just posting recollections for no reason. HTH with your confusion.

No, because it was both. Amy Desir and Lily Maynard.

Amy and Hannah as Man Friday. And Lily as Borat, if I remember.

I think every woman who has spoken up is pretty fantastic tbh. It has not been without risk, personal and professional. But this thread, that you made Adam is about KJK.

It was Amy who wore the mankini, Lily wore a beard.

No, you tried to imply that let women speak at speakers corner was riding on the coattails of an event at speakers corner where Maria Mac was assaulted.

One is a planned event, with security, and audio, where women are given a microphone to speak.

And the other was a bunch of women (and Miranda Yardley) meeting up to be given the address of where a talk was to be held.

And many of the women who were at that talk still post here.

Fair Play For Women, Safe Schools Alliance, Transgender Trend, Sex Matters, LGB Alliance, For Women Scotland, Let Women Speak, Women's Rights Network, Keep Prisons Single Sex just off the top of my head. All groups that have emerged from dealing with this shitshow.
Countless women - very few demanding personal praise or recognition - just relentlessly centring safeguarding children and women's rights.
Every single woman should be proud of their contribution - whether active, speaking out, writing letters, donating, challenging, supporting our children to see the truth of what's happening and so much else.
Women speaking out. A magnificent contrast to aspects of this mean spirited thread.

That's right 🤣🤣

Frankly, I don't know how they had the nerve.

I honestly wish they'd do it again.

Yes. As a follow on to a previous thread that I didn't start, where posters seemed unwilling to even vaguely countenance any criticism of KJK.

Unfortunately I don't think refusing to engage with points and shouting at people that they are disingenous/lying/dim is a very effective strategy for changing minds. And in my case it makes me curious about the defensiveness.

I have to say that this thread has done nothing to overturn my previous view (that I've been repeatedly told is wrong) that FWR is now extremely cliquey, right wing and an echo chamber. I was asked a while ago for evidence of that. This thread and the previous one are absolute case in point.

Flexing credentials about real life relationships, and being friends with banned members.

Some truly shocking (now deleted) attitudes that noone even raised an eyebrow at.

An anti-feminist, right wing man being used as an example of a victim.

And a complete unwillingness, even when presented with KJKs own words, to say "oh that's a bit extreme".

The magic microphone makes all the difference. Without it, women couldn't speak

It's all a bit evangelical really. Finding god style public sessions. Anyway if people really still feel that they need to be out and about shouting that only men have penises, fair play to them. I mean even the prime minister says it now, showing its not controversial any more.

a young woman that never actually really made it to the mainstream news, wasn't a big story, was cut up, and I think she was put in sort of meat that was sold for human consumption.

It was the prosecution allegation in the trial for the murder of 14 year old Blackpool girl Charlene Downes in 2003. KJK did not dream it up herself.

Following a police decision to treat Downes's disappearance as murder, there were several arrests in the case, and two men stood trial in May 2007. The prosecution alleged at Preston Crown Courtt^ that Charlene had been murdered by Iyad Albattikhi, a 29-year-old man from Jordan and the owner of Funny Boyz fast-food outlet in Blackpool. Mohammed Reveshi, Albattikhi's business partner, was accused of disposing of her body. According to the prosecution, Albattikhi had sex with Charlene.[21][22] The prosecution alleged that the men had discussed disposing of her body by putting it in kebabss^ sold from the fast food outlet.[6][23]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisappearanceoffCharleneDownes

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/may/30/ukcrime.childprotection (an article on the case and the situation in Blackpool by Julie Bindel)

Flexing credentials about real life relationships, and being friends with banned members.

Nah. It's Because you keep talking about the golden age of FWR and bemoaning how it's changed.

So people are letting you know that the women you're talking about are still very much involved and known about.