St. John's Ambulance and pronouns.

[Imnobody4]

Surely this is illegal.

https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1773278681286283498?t=SnCzWxajwU_7aBbspQ_2Ww&s=19

Wow.

Internal job applicants at @stjohnambulance are asked to share their pronouns.

If they refuse, text pops up chastising them and pressuring them to “reconsider”.

If they still refuse, they are told to explain why they won’t share them.

This is ideological harassment

Whoever suggested this upthread: it is perfect.

I/Me/Mine

‘Everyone is referred to in the third person.’

Including the third person singular? Probably not…..

I doubt this is going to survive for very long.

Apart from the questionable legality I don't think even Stonewall officially endorses harassing people to state pronouns when they've said they don't feel comfortable doing so or prefer not to.

I work for a very large charity that primarily supports elderly people. When taking someone's details, I'm supposed to ask about their gender, sexuality, and whether they have their gender matches their sex at birth. You can probably imagine how well that goes down with people 80+ years of age.

I heard a recent proposal to add pronouns to the initial assessment questions. The reasoning was "Trans people's safety is more important than other people's feelings."

I don't even know where to start unpicking that.

No, other people can refer to me as they see me. It’s not up to me to tell other people how to see me.

Exactly. If someone refers to me as “snotrag” that’s their choice, and says something about them, not necessarily about me.

Volunteers aren’t covered by employment law.

The irony of saying "it helps to create an inclusive environment" when it does the exact opposite.

You're right, volunteers are not explicitly covered by employment law.

However, I know it gets tricky depending on the registration of an organisation etc and the perception of service delivery when the EqA 2010 is considered.

The Equality Act 2010 says changes or adjustments should be made to ensure you can access the following things if you’re disabled:

• education
• employment - ask your employer for adjustments
• housing - ask for adjustments in your home
• goods and services like shops, banks, cinemas, hospitals, council offices, leisure centres
• associations and private clubs like the Scouts and Guides, private golf clubs and working men clubs

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/check-what-type-of-discrimination-youve-experienced/duty-to-make-reasonable-adjustments-for-disabled-people/

I've no idea into which bucket SJA falls. And, yet again, can I say it's ridiculous that so many organisations don't perceive any need to be accessible, even when some 'reasonable accommodations' would be fairly trivial.

Oooh this is interesting our H&S manager (who i suspect is GC) very recently announced we were no longer using SJA for our FA and MHFA training instead using a small local company, I assumed it was cost but maybe its because of this?? I do hope so we spent about £5k a year with SJA!

This is the weird thing, it's totally counter-productive.

I've seen trans people on Twitter and elsewhere saying that if people state their own pronouns in profiles etc it tells them "I'm on your side". Which I suppose does make sense in a way.

If you force people to state pronouns then this doesn't work anymore cos you don't know who is "on your side" and who's just doing it because they feel they have to.

This is all about forcing compliance, not the welfare of trans people.

Don’t be obtuse. You know as well as anyone this is nothing more than having bought into an ideology and expecting staff to go along with it. It’s very ill advised

If you force people to state pronouns then this doesn't work anymore cos you don't know who is "on your side" and who's just doing it because they feel they have to.

This is a good point. I hadn't thought of this.

They could let a Trojan horse full of rabid TERFS into their organisation . . .

💯- in my 55 years on this planet I’ve never had to introduce myself as she/her or announce that I’m a woman. Every bloody clue is there in front of peoples eyes and ears.

I’ve interviewed 100’s maybe 1000’s of job candidates over my career and I’ve not once asked someone’s pronouns. I use their name like most normal people always have before this crap started

We’re not allowed to ask someone’s age, sexuality, political leanings or religion at a job interview- why is asking pronouns acceptable then?

It's funny how you just don't know what people's real views on this are!

I saw the word TERF used on a note at work (an informal note but still, officially, a work communication) and said quietly to the manager that I thought it was inappropriate and warned them possibly illegal (Thanks, Maya) They totally agreed but commented cryptically that it was lucky it was me who spotted it and not "someone else" or there's have been hell to pay. Which makes me think there's someone much more GC in the building somewhere but I have no idea who!

None of the above. There is no legal requirement for them to consider RAs for vols.

we are firmly committed to meeting the requirements under the Equity ACT 2010.

They could start by learning the the name of the Act !

It like nails scraping across a blackboard for me every time somebody on telly or radio call it The 'Equalities' Act 😩

How does declaring pronouns make transpeople 'safe'? So sick of the ridiculous hyperbole that people not 100% believing and swearing allegiance to someone's religion, makes that person unsafe.

Nobody in senior positions/board is trans but there are influential people with trans friends and family members.
Amazing how everyone has women friends and family members but that never works out in our favour.

So you think pronouns should be based not on sex, but on the perception of it?

I would reply back asking why they need to know. The truth is they don’t need to know. They are pushing an ideology.

🙄

Their policy states that if someone objects to sharing toilets or changing rooms with someone that is trans they will be “educated” and if they still refuse they’ll face disciplinary proceedings for harassment.

There is no accomodation that can be made with this mindset. The ideologues must be driven out.