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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Little OJ has left Labour!

154 replies

AdamRyan · 21/03/2024 16:01

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68622127

Grin

This is great news and shows Labour is going in the right direction imo. Bye bye L'OJ

I'm very surprised this was deemed newsworthy however 😂

Owen Jones

Owen Jones urges Labour voters to back other parties

Activist is cancelling his Labour membership and backing candidates with "transformative policies".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68622127

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BackToLurk · 22/03/2024 07:38

DramaLlamaBangBang · 22/03/2024 07:28

That just proves he appealed to a very narrow constituency of people probably in large cities, probably mainly London. Yes, we have a shit electoral system. But you work in the world you have, not the world you want. If you don't get elected you can't do anything you want to do. Corbynites also forget what happened in 2019.

Yep. I thought the ‘nearly won’ myth had been put to bed.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-2017-general-election-not-that-close-after-all/

The 2017 general election: not that close after all - UK in a changing Europe

Anthony B. Masters examines the claim that in the 2017 general election, the Labour Party were just 2,227 votes away from the chance of government.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-2017-general-election-not-that-close-after-all/

MotherOfCatBoy · 22/03/2024 07:44

Can’t stand Owen Jones, good riddance.

But it makes me sad when I talk to my 95 year old Dad, fervent Labour all his life, talk about cancelling his Labour membership because of Gaza.

This is a complicated issue, I don’t wish to derail, but my heart breaks at the total mess of it all. Hamas are the evil fuckers who caused it all, most of the Gulf states are happy to harbour their leaders. Netanyahu is a power mad war criminal - there is absolutely no need to go to the destructive lengths he has. Ordinary people are suffering and there is a lot of anti Semitic and anti Muslim bullshit out there.

Initially I thought Labour’s stance on a ceasefire was right because Israel was defending itself against such heinous crimes. But as it’s worn on and become so disproportionate, I think surveys show most people support a ceasefire. Labour should have changed their stance earlier. Even the US is starting to change their tune.

In the meantime it’s caused a hell of a lot of damage on the Left. A lot of people want simple black and white views and are frightened by complexity and their own impotence. There is so much infighting and papers like the Guardian which my Dad reads avidly, have fed this unreservedly. To look at it some days you would think Labour were in power and the Guardian were supporting some far left opposition, they criticise them so much, whilst no one seems to ever question Sunak on it.

I think my Dad will fail to vote this year and if that is repeated at scale then we’re in a big mess.

AdamRyan · 22/03/2024 07:49

MotherOfCatBoy · 22/03/2024 07:44

Can’t stand Owen Jones, good riddance.

But it makes me sad when I talk to my 95 year old Dad, fervent Labour all his life, talk about cancelling his Labour membership because of Gaza.

This is a complicated issue, I don’t wish to derail, but my heart breaks at the total mess of it all. Hamas are the evil fuckers who caused it all, most of the Gulf states are happy to harbour their leaders. Netanyahu is a power mad war criminal - there is absolutely no need to go to the destructive lengths he has. Ordinary people are suffering and there is a lot of anti Semitic and anti Muslim bullshit out there.

Initially I thought Labour’s stance on a ceasefire was right because Israel was defending itself against such heinous crimes. But as it’s worn on and become so disproportionate, I think surveys show most people support a ceasefire. Labour should have changed their stance earlier. Even the US is starting to change their tune.

In the meantime it’s caused a hell of a lot of damage on the Left. A lot of people want simple black and white views and are frightened by complexity and their own impotence. There is so much infighting and papers like the Guardian which my Dad reads avidly, have fed this unreservedly. To look at it some days you would think Labour were in power and the Guardian were supporting some far left opposition, they criticise them so much, whilst no one seems to ever question Sunak on it.

I think my Dad will fail to vote this year and if that is repeated at scale then we’re in a big mess.

Yes, I was outraged at the political shenanigans in the commons the other week. It's too important, yet seems to be getting pushed into a culture war so we can't discuss it.

I haven't listened yet, but I was really heartened to see Sayeeda Warsi and David Baddiel have made a podcast called "A Muslim and a Jew Go There" and discuss the Gaza crisis. I think we need less polarisation, not more.

I agree with you too that Netanyahu is terrifying, he's like Putin in my opinion and needs to go. But I'll stick to the ME board to discuss it.

OP posts:
IAmPrincessKate · 22/03/2024 07:50

Bye bye LOJ 👋

What is it your mates say? Ah, yes. Enjoy your erasure 😘

Zodfa · 22/03/2024 09:58

Not sure I understand the logic of "getting two-fifths of the national vote only proves you appeal to a very narrow constituency of voters", but anyway.

Was OJ one of those people who insisted that any Labour supporters who didn't like Corbyn were terrible traitors and anyone committed to the Labour movement would follow their lead no matter what? I lose track.

AdamRyan · 22/03/2024 10:00

https://www.google.com/amp/s/labourlist.org/2024/03/owen-jones-labour-we-deserve-better-socialist-progressive/%3famp

"We deserve better" looks like the kind of rabble rousers Michael Gove wants to legislate against. I wonder if he will say anything?

(That's irony by the way - I don't think they are rabble rousers personally but they align with the kind of thing that keeps Gove awake at night)

What is We Deserve Better, the group Owen Jones has left Labour for? – LabourList

Left-wing activist and columnist Owen Jones has announced he has quit the Labour Party after 24 years, urging voters to back Green and independent candidates…

https://www.google.com/amp/s/labourlist.org/2024/03/owen-jones-labour-we-deserve-better-socialist-progressive/%3famp

OP posts:
ScierraDoll · 22/03/2024 10:08

AdamRyan · 21/03/2024 16:09

Yeah me too. But I think it might reassure a lot of voters that the last vestiges of Corbyn have gone. 🤞.

There are a lot of hard left Corbynites still in the party. Blair thought he had transformed the party but he hadn't. The hard left just kept their heads down as they are doing now. Starmer isn't really a centrist he just pretends to be to make himself popular with the public. Cultural Marxism is thriving in the party.
What till he gets into number 10 and we will have a raft of policies about trans rights and all the other wokery that clings to this snake oil salesman like the proverbial

BaronMunchausen · 22/03/2024 10:53

@Moonwatcher1234 I saw Maya and Rosie in a gushy spread in the vile (and dare I say, misogynistic) daily Mail the other day. Guess that was okay with everyone though?

Bedfellow politics and guilt by association really is a dead-end. The message is more important than the medium - and the people who share an opinion really doesn't reflect at all on the substance of that opinion (e.g. Nick Griffin's presence on Gaza solidarity demos). We are all too aware that Maya and Rosie are unable to 'gush' in most of the places that should be championing women's rights - yet they are to either remain silent or be condemned for that very reason? Where would you suggest they gush?

RebelliousCow · 22/03/2024 11:39

Moonwatcher1234 · 21/03/2024 21:00

Owen jones has consistently been the only member of the media brave enough to keep calling out Labour on Gaza and to keep drawing attention to the ugly, unutterable things happening in Gaza. He’s a hero for that.

Owen Jones has spent his whole life obsessively against Israel - to the point he even spent his student days feverishly editing wikipedia pages to reflect his one eyed view.

RebelliousCow · 22/03/2024 11:44

showmethegin · 21/03/2024 19:06

Israel are intentionally starving to death over 1.5 million people. They are stopping water purification systems at the border.

You have to be pretty naive to think this is all about Hamas.

Israel shot two children to death in the West Bank last week, that Hamas too was it?

That is simply not true. Yesterday I saw a clip of two Gazan men in an UN tent in Ramallah. Their faces had been obscured because they were recounting how whenever an aid delivery comes in, Hamas hijacks the trucks - taking the food, tents and other supplies for themselves, their wider tribe and family. One of the men said he had to pay Hamas for a tent which had been donated via international aid. Hamas cares only about Hamas - other Gazans can fend for themselves.

Hamas has fired shots at crowds as they gather around aid convoys - and Hamas attacks the Egyptian drivers and wrecks their vehicles - to the extent that Egyptian drivers say they will not return.

AdamRyan · 22/03/2024 11:46

ScierraDoll · 22/03/2024 10:08

There are a lot of hard left Corbynites still in the party. Blair thought he had transformed the party but he hadn't. The hard left just kept their heads down as they are doing now. Starmer isn't really a centrist he just pretends to be to make himself popular with the public. Cultural Marxism is thriving in the party.
What till he gets into number 10 and we will have a raft of policies about trans rights and all the other wokery that clings to this snake oil salesman like the proverbial

Not sure what you are referring to by cultural Marxism but it's not a term I would use.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 22/03/2024 11:46

Wonder if hes joining Reform?

OP posts:
RebelliousCow · 22/03/2024 11:53

Codlingmoths · 21/03/2024 20:44

I think we have the most naive viewpoint of the year here.

Hamas were given the opportunity to release the hostages before IDF had then to go in to Gaza. They had three weeks to do so. They refused. Hamas also broke the conditions of the first ceasefire by continuing to fire missiles into Israel.

Because Gaza is and has been a 'free for all' for various tribal affiliations and groupings since 2005 - Hamas no longer even know where some of the hostages are because they are held by other groups. Furthermore hostages have been tortured and raped.

Hamas cares not about its own people - it cares only about its own survival. Taking aid for themselves at the expense of the rest of the population. Huge sacks of flour where uncovered in a tunnel under a UN school last week; and fuel supplies are taken to run the ventillation and other systems in the tunnels.

Your posts also qualifies for most naive of the year - as well as falling for the biased propoganda fed by obsessive Israel haters.

Moonwatcher1234 · 22/03/2024 11:56

RebelliousCow · 22/03/2024 11:44

That is simply not true. Yesterday I saw a clip of two Gazan men in an UN tent in Ramallah. Their faces had been obscured because they were recounting how whenever an aid delivery comes in, Hamas hijacks the trucks - taking the food, tents and other supplies for themselves, their wider tribe and family. One of the men said he had to pay Hamas for a tent which had been donated via international aid. Hamas cares only about Hamas - other Gazans can fend for themselves.

Hamas has fired shots at crowds as they gather around aid convoys - and Hamas attacks the Egyptian drivers and wrecks their vehicles - to the extent that Egyptian drivers say they will not return.

Edited

So all the international players - including the US and UK - are wrong when they say Israel is impeding aid and has created a man made famine. This is now the official UK position. Interesting. I don’t want to derail this thread but these lies cannot be allowed to stand. Next, you’re going to do a Melanie Phillips and tell us the fruit and veg markets in Gaza are simply groaning with produce because she saw a clip of it on YouTube. The world is finally seeing through these pure lies.

RebelliousCow · 22/03/2024 12:00

It doesn't make any difference to anything much that OJ has handed in his membership. Much of the Left of the party have already been hating on Starmer for years. He gets treated disgracefully when he comes to my city - by radical malcontents who like to get in his face and tell him what a sell out he is.

What concerns me more are some of the back benchers who remain - including my own MP. I cannot vote for her - no matter how tempted I might be to once again vote Labour ( other than for their commitment to modernising the GRA in favour of virtual self ID)

RebelliousCow · 22/03/2024 12:05

Moonwatcher1234 · 22/03/2024 11:56

So all the international players - including the US and UK - are wrong when they say Israel is impeding aid and has created a man made famine. This is now the official UK position. Interesting. I don’t want to derail this thread but these lies cannot be allowed to stand. Next, you’re going to do a Melanie Phillips and tell us the fruit and veg markets in Gaza are simply groaning with produce because she saw a clip of it on YouTube. The world is finally seeing through these pure lies.

You can see videos for yourself of Egyptian lorry drivers talking about being attacked and of saying they will no longer return and that Hamas gets all it deserves; and of ordinary Gazans berating Hamas for treating them with contempt as well as stealing their aid. Take a look at MEMRI TV which compiles films and interviews from TV and media stations all around the Middle East to see the interviews we are not being shown here - which seem never to focus on what Hamas is doing in Gaza.

So predicatble with the Melanie Phillips tropes.

https://www.memri.org/tv

Moonwatcher1234 · 22/03/2024 12:07

RebelliousCow · 22/03/2024 12:05

You can see videos for yourself of Egyptian lorry drivers talking about being attacked and of saying they will no longer return and that Hamas gets all it deserves; and of ordinary Gazans berating Hamas for treating them with contempt as well as stealing their aid. Take a look at MEMRI TV which compiles films and interviews from TV and media stations all around the Middle East to see the interviews we are not being shown here - which seem never to focus on what Hamas is doing in Gaza.

So predicatble with the Melanie Phillips tropes.

https://www.memri.org/tv

Edited

Melanie Phillips tropes!! She said it on national tv - question time. Predictable, don’t believe the evidence of your own eyes, attempt there. If anyone’s interested you can find the clip I’m taking about - it’s jaw dropping - even the audience are laughing at her in shock.

RebelliousCow · 22/03/2024 12:15

Moonwatcher1234 · 22/03/2024 12:07

Melanie Phillips tropes!! She said it on national tv - question time. Predictable, don’t believe the evidence of your own eyes, attempt there. If anyone’s interested you can find the clip I’m taking about - it’s jaw dropping - even the audience are laughing at her in shock.

Just a couple of clips - amongst many - which have been shown on middle eastern TV stations - but not here.

https://www.memri.org/tv/anti-hamas-protests-gaza-strip-people-topple-sinwar-collaborator-traitor-expletive-haniyeh-osama-hamdan

https://www.memri.org/tv/masked-people-protection-committee-patrol-rafah-markets-carrying-batons-rifles

Masked 'People's Protection Committees' Patrol Rafah Markets Carrying Batons And Rifles; Customers Complain About Traders Exploiting The War To Raise Prices

A Euronews report from March 1, 2024 shows the "People's Protection Committees" patrolling Rafah markets. The men, who a...

https://www.memri.org/tv/masked-people-protection-committee-patrol-rafah-markets-carrying-batons-rifles

Moonwatcher1234 · 22/03/2024 12:17

What middle eastern tv channels? Israel? Take your propaganda elsewhere - people aren’t buying it anymore.

RebelliousCow · 22/03/2024 12:19

Moonwatcher1234 · 22/03/2024 12:17

What middle eastern tv channels? Israel? Take your propaganda elsewhere - people aren’t buying it anymore.

No, not Israeli channels. Middle Eastern channels from right across the Arab world. You don't want to look or acknowledge, because you are committed to an obsessive one eyed version of events.

MEMRI TV monitors over 100 channels from the Arab and Muslim world – from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf, Yemen, Iran, and Iraq to Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Turkey, Palestinian Authority, and Gaza, and parts of Africa as well as Af-Pak and Russia. MEMRI TV clips are viewed in 197 countries.

Moonwatcher1234 · 22/03/2024 12:24

RebelliousCow · 22/03/2024 12:19

No, not Israeli channels. Middle Eastern channels from right across the Arab world. You don't want to look or acknowledge, because you are committed to an obsessive one eyed version of events.

MEMRI TV monitors over 100 channels from the Arab and Muslim world – from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf, Yemen, Iran, and Iraq to Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Turkey, Palestinian Authority, and Gaza, and parts of Africa as well as Af-Pak and Russia. MEMRI TV clips are viewed in 197 countries.

Edited

have you been watching Al Jazeera as well since you’re oh so committed to trying to find out the truth? You are evidently the one eyed obsessive. And I note you haven’t specified which alleged channels right across the Middle East this stuff is being shown on. Because it’s not. OP, so sorry to derail and I promise I will stop now but @RebelliousCow shows why I rate oj for his proper journalistic work and integrity in Gaza when the sheer lies and disinformation out there is so vast. Again, I will finish by saying to everyone who disagrees with me, please just watch his vids on Palestine with an open mind. I’m with you on the trans stuff but Gaza is just heartbreaking.

RebelliousCow · 22/03/2024 12:32

Moonwatcher1234 · 22/03/2024 12:24

have you been watching Al Jazeera as well since you’re oh so committed to trying to find out the truth? You are evidently the one eyed obsessive. And I note you haven’t specified which alleged channels right across the Middle East this stuff is being shown on. Because it’s not. OP, so sorry to derail and I promise I will stop now but @RebelliousCow shows why I rate oj for his proper journalistic work and integrity in Gaza when the sheer lies and disinformation out there is so vast. Again, I will finish by saying to everyone who disagrees with me, please just watch his vids on Palestine with an open mind. I’m with you on the trans stuff but Gaza is just heartbreaking.

I'm not in the habit of making things up. MEMRI TV collates interviews from TV channels all across the arab and Muslim world, including 'Palestinian Authority TV' and 'Ahrar Gaza'; 'Hiwar TV';'Al Kahera Wal Has ( Egyptian TV channel); 'Al Jazeera Network - Quatar'.......

RebelliousCow · 22/03/2024 12:37

RebelliousCow · 22/03/2024 12:32

I'm not in the habit of making things up. MEMRI TV collates interviews from TV channels all across the arab and Muslim world, including 'Palestinian Authority TV' and 'Ahrar Gaza'; 'Hiwar TV';'Al Kahera Wal Has ( Egyptian TV channel); 'Al Jazeera Network - Quatar'.......

Edited

Alghad TV ( Egypt); Al Masirah ( Yemen);........

BackToLurk · 22/03/2024 12:57

Jesus. Why is part of the left so obsessed with the world’s one Jewish state? Where’s the same concern for the Uyghurs and Tibetans. Don’t see them shouting at Chinese students or asking for any type of BDS