Sexual harassed DD6 in unisex toilet

[LittleCoffeePot]

I initially posted this using a throwaway account in AIBU for traffic but it got derailed accusing me of lying and being obsessed with toilets(?) and my account deleted. This is my main account so I'm hoping this wont be deleted as I genuinely need help and advice.

Monday night, my DD6 comes and tells me that the week before, when using some unisex toilets for a different classroom at school that she wasn't familiar with, she was struggling to lock the door and a boy offered to hold the door. These unisex toilets are unsupervised. While using the toilet, the boy gathered a group of other boys and they opened the door twice to all laugh at her while she was on the toilet. She was in floods of tears telling me this and now doesn't want to use the toilet at school. She said she told a teacher or TA but they didn't do anything.

Obviously I immediately brought this up with the school and they have 'investigated'. They implied that it was my daughter's fault for not being able to lock the door and that from now on she's going to be accompanied by an adult to the toilet. They said the boy's mother has been told but they're 'working on' an apology from him. They're also 'investigating' the member of staff who was told but did nothing.

I had no idea that the school even had unisex toilets as the ones I'd seen in Early Years were sexed. I'm horrified that the unisex toilets for young children are unmonitored and that the school has failed my daughter in allowing this to happen.

I've escalated the issue with the head but am expecting to be brushed off with a 'well we've sorted it now' as they've informed me that unisex toilets are apparently the norm. How do I go beyond the school? Who do I alert to this safeguarding failure?

Thanks

You tell your DD what you've told us here in an age-appropriate way:

• That you think that the boys did a naughty thing, especially the one who tricked her by pretending to help.
• That you are talking to the school to find ways to keep her safe, the school aren't being very helpful but you will keep trying.

And you add to that that if anyone looks at her undressed or touches her vulva, she is to tell you immediately.

You cannot control the school but you can ensure that she knows that you've got her back on this.

Exactly, and that was from the 'desginated safeguarding lead' I spoke to this morning.

At every point so far they've been quick to minimise the issue and try to placate me with insignificant gestures like having a chat with him and getting someone to take her to the toilet to show her how to use the lock. No apology from the boys involved or review of why/how this happened and how to stop it happening from anyone else. Place the blame on her and shrug it off.

So sorry this happened to your daughter. I’d go to the head of school about this behaviour. It’s unacceptable. Planned SH.

Then the head needs to talk to all of the boys and their parents.

"They'd have done it to a boy too." Well, firstly I suspect this would have been rather less likely, but secondly, if they did it it would be sexual harassment even then.

If it were a group of adult men doing this there wouldn't be any doubt, would there? Now, little boys aren't as culpable as adult men, but their harmful actions still need dealing with.

If the DSL is saying shit like that, they aren't fit for the post.

Don't stop complaining. Take it to LEA if you have to.

This thread has been very instructive on why we are where we are with regard to the kind of ladder of harassment and abuse women and girls have to navigate. Ultimately, OP, this is where you are and the only part you have control over….

You cannot control the school but you can ensure that she knows that you've got her back on this

In the face of the minimising, excusing and denial that we can all see has happened here on this thread, and is endemic irl, the above is what we can, at least, do.

It's just so awful. Potentially their actions are more damaging than what the boys did.

1. They're teaching her that being bullied is a result of something she has done 'wrong'.
2. That girls are responsible for boys bad behaviour towards them. And they they are to blame when men violate their boundaries.

That's such a damaging message to give to a young child. Not only does it set them up up a world of shit in adulthood- What if, heaven forbid, they ran into a paedophile down the line and thought that any abuse suffered must be their own fault, as a result of what they were taught by adults before!

Tell your daughter that she was in no way to blame for other people's behaviour. That they qre naughty kids who lied to her and that's not her fault. That people do not have the right to do what they did. And that she should always tell you if anything like this happens.

Potentially their actions are more damaging than what the boys did

Agree.

We don’t know if this little boy did it because she was a girl or whether he would do it to a boy.

We can, I think, be confident he did it as he knew it was shameful and embarrassing for her to be caught semi-naked/ on the toilet. He wasn’t laughing at her for being seated at a desk was he?

But the important thing is that it is the job of adults to raise boys not to harass girls for their own pleasure. This boy has already been rewarded for his behaviour by his mates laughing along with him. That is a very powerful reward, one that gives him a feeling of acceptance and belonging and status. If the girl was visibly upset, he may have also enjoyed a feeling of power and control. Again, a powerful reward. People repeat behaviours that reward him.

That is why the school needs to take a firm stance on this.

To stop boys sexually harrassing girls, we need to take firm action on early incidents by this. Because if they are doing this for kicks when they are 15, when they have porn and Tate to normalize and celebrate their behaviour, it’s probably already too late to turn them around.

OP, I haven't RTFT but I'm so sorry this has happened to you and your daughter.

I work in a school and we have boys and girls loos. Any boy who did anything like this would be disciplined for it - I can say this with confidence because we had something similar, though not quite as bad, happen a few years ago.

The school should not get away with this.

OP I'm so sorry for your dd.

This is why women are not safe today. Little boys are taught there are no consequences for these types of actions. They get social status with friends who laugh along. The girls it happens to are too they did something wrong and are left feeling worse by the adults there to protect them dismissive of what happened. So next time someone does something to them the accept it/keep quiet.

It's certainly bullying when she was in a vulnerable position. I would argue it is sexual abuse as abuse is rarely about the sex it's about the power and this incident the boy had the power and that's why he did it. Doesn't really matter if it's sexual abuse or not it needs dealing with doesn't it. To not protest bullying because you feel it's not sexual abuse as OP stated is ridiculous

How can you teach the safety, dignity and the pants rule and not have consequences for boys who harass girls?

Of course, it was sexual harassment.

OP I think actually contacting the NSPCC may be helpful:

Report Abuse in Education Helpline

Young people who have experienced abuse at school and parents and teachers who are concerned about sexual abuse in education settings can call 663 0800 136 663 or email [email protected].

https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/child-abuse-and-neglect/harmful-sexual-behaviour

Calling this sexual harassment is not going to help. 6 year old children are curious and while they need to be taught this is unacceptable and bullying behaviour it doesnt help you to get it dealt with by going overboard.

Do you have young children? There is a huge difference between normal childhood curiosity and laughing at another child, and encouraging others to laugh too.

These boys were laughing because they knew this was a private moment they were intruding upon.

If we want fewer teenagers and men who abuse and harass women, we need to address these earlier years incidents firmly.

I've experienced bullying, and I've experienced sexual assault. Serious, in both cases.

Of course, neither were experiences I'd wish on anyone. Both have had lasting ramifications. But there is a reason hate legislation exists. To experience bullying which also has a sexual element is highly traumatic. It's what a court of law might deem to be a serious aggravating factor. You'd get a hefier sentence with that aggravating factor than you would without it. That tells you something about the seriousness of the case.

(NB. in case this needs pointing out, or that the above will be twisted in the way you've tried to twist the PP's comment, I'm well aware that 6 is below the age of criminal responsibility. It's a hypothetical analogy of why the sexual element is more serious, both legally and morally. Kids that age lack understanding and therefore lack culpability. But when you're a child and the victim of 'bullying' with sexual undertoes, believe me, you know when something is 'off', even if not exactly why. Ergo, when kids perpetrate it, they'll have something of a similar understanding.

You are not only claiming an equal 'status' between bullying and bullying with a sexual element, but actually suggest the PP is the one playing word-games by 'downplaying' bullying as opposed to a situation with a sexual element.

That's transparent. It's disingenuous. It's the lowest form of defence with which to double down in support of an unconscionable comment.

You should be ashamed. But if you have that degree of insight, I'd be very surprised.

Some really sensible advice.

This incident was a boy coercing and manipulating a girl into a vulnerable situation, then deliberately intruding on her, mocking and ridiculing her, involving others in that ridicule.

How on earth do you think abuse starts?

Why is he doing this? It's absolutely nothing to do with 'curiosity', he knew it was wrong.

He's testing a boundary. He knows he shouldn't intrude on a girl in a state of undress. But he's doing it. Why?

Do you suggest we should wait until he is satisfied that he's not going to have his behaviour confronted.

So he will push a bit further.

When do adults step in?

The 'pants' rule is clear and straightforward:

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/support-for-parents/pants-underwear-rule/

Privates are private

Your underwear covers up your private parts and no one should ask to see or touch them. Sometimes a doctor, nurse or family members might have to. But they should always explain why, and ask you if it's OK first. Remember, what's in your pants belongs only to you.

Your body belongs to you. No one should ever make you do things that make you feel embarrassed or uncomfortable. If someone asks to see, or tries to touch you, underneath your underwear, say 'NO' – and tell someone you trust and like to speak to.

No one has the right to make you do anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. If somebody does make you do something, it is never your fault. Even if the person who has made you feel uncomfortable, has told you it is your fault.

No means no and you always have the right to say ‘no’ – even to a family member or someone you love. You’re in control of your body and the most important thing is how YOU feel. If you want to say ‘no’, it’s your choice.

When we teach children about consent, this is absolutely where it starts, in fact younger.

We teach children boundaries and consent in an age appropriate way.

The adults responsible for children need to maintain these boundaries in an age appropriate way.

The situation needs to be handled in an age appropriate way.

The issues here are consent, respect, and boundaries.

So much of the focus is on the boys, what their motivations were.

What about OP's daughter, how she feels?

Boys trapping a girl, manipulating and lying to get her into that situation, forcing their way in, and looking at her undressed, then mocking and laughing - the whole situation is a clear illustration of many aspects the power imbalance and non-consensual behaviour that is the foundation for sexual assault and abuse.

If it makes you feel better, call it 'problematic sexualised behaviour'; you can see it on the scale in the NSPCC links. It is a scale of behaviour and these boys are young. Children are learning from birth.

The fact that so many people find this too uncomfortable to even consider is very frustrating.

Girls deserve better. Our girls don't and will not learn to blame themselves, learn to be more vigilant, 'get over it'.

Our boys will learn to respect boundaries, learn the principles of consent, and consider others' feelings.

Boys trapping a girl, manipulating and lying to get her into that situation, forcing their way in, and looking at her undressed, then mocking and laughing - the whole situation is a clear illustration of many aspects the power imbalance and non-consensual behaviour that is the foundation for sexual assault and abuse

Absolutely this!

Because toilets are places in which our biological/sexed body is relevant, and in which girls, in particular, are vulnerable to types of behaviour which are designed to embarrass and shame, and in which the boys demonstrated power over her.

A group of boys mocked a girl using the toilet, and you don't regard this as sexual harassment? Do you really think it was mere bullying (which would be bad enough)? Do you think that they would have done this to another boy?

How do you think this girl feels? Just put yourself in her position - half way through a wee and a gang of men burst in and start making fun of you performing a private function?

Of course it's sexually harassing!

Of course it's sexual harassment. What do the PPs who think it's not SH think they do in other case of SH - measure the size of erections to prove the males are turned on? No. Sexual Harassment is just sex-based harassment, a group of boys conspiring to ogle a girls genitals against her will absolutely counts.

Being 6 means they should get age appropriate discipline. It doesn't mean they should be let off the hook or that we should be in denial about what they have done. They still need to learn that its unacceptable and different to non-sexual teasing / bullying.

Consider how revenge porn might not result in the perpetrator being turned on, they might just do it to make their victim lose their job or to upset them. Yet it's still a sex crime because it's still abuse that leverages sex to humiliate the victim.

I dont currently have young children, mine's grown. Not only are these kids 6 but possibly in an SEN school, that's not clear. If the girl stayed sitting on the toilet they didnt "ogle" anything, they were laughing at her being embarrassed.

No-one, apart from the school, has suggested that the behaviour should not be challenger or the boys punished for it. But frothing over sexual harassment is not the right way to ensure that.