Jon Ronson and Adam Buxton

[WarriorN]

I'm astounded at this "bonus episode" of "and things fell apart."

Absolutely everything Glinner has said has been proven.

This is a twitter link, I imagine it's on bbc sounds

x.com/glinner/status/1769152705333699000?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

x.com/journalistjill/status/1769381010309833189?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

Ferring Pharmaceuticals have made substantial donations to the Lib Dems.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/puberty-blocker-drug-firm-donated-cash-to-lib-dems-cf3x77nh3

Someone on Twitter is claiming a much higher amount but I couldn't find references with a quick look, maybe someone else has them.

You can't possibly look at the examples of what's happening here in Scotland and claim that there isn't wholescale institutional capture.

You can't be that naive.

(Edited - missed out a c)

I read the debate about Ludwig when it first happened. Back in the day when you could have a sensible conversation about the risks from self-identification on women's spaces and the potential harm of allowing predatory men unrestricted access to vulnerable women and girls.

When was that please? Because I was first introduced to the pernicious trans ideology in the 'queer' circles I moved in in the early '00s and even then it was verboten to talk about those risks. I got kicked out of a queer reading group for trying to bring forward Dworkin's essay on the issue. Have you read that? And then when trans ideology became more mainstream, at the behest of the pharmaceutical companies and some very shady porn-adjacent 'activists', it was all about "Some women have penises. Get over it." The word TERF emerged as a conversation ender soon after. It has never been possible to have a sensible conversation.

What's changed is now there's this element of right versus left wing, competitive victimhood about which activists have behaved worse, accusations of "you want to harm women and/or children" being levelled at people doing their jobs and ridiculous "institutional capture" nonsense going on.

It's not a right vs left issue. Many of us come at it as left wing working class women of ethnic minority backgrounds. I will concede it's a class issue to the extent that trans ideology's most vociferous cheerleaders are overwhelmingly privileged. As to 'institutional capture'. What does the Denton's Report do if not lay out clearly how this capture should take place? Have you read it?

I don't need to read the twitter of someone who is fully on the activist band wagon thanks. I'll stick to reading this board and more rational sources about what's happening.

Ah, there's the rub. Rather than read source materials (often a time consuming task I grant you), you're reading third and fourth hand regurgitated opinions by TRAs and then coming on MN threads and presenting them as your own thinking and using them to attempt to own the silly little wummin.

Yes, Ferring Pharmaceuticals donated huge amounts to the Lib Dems over a few years up to 2019 I believe. Not sure about whether they gave money since then.
Ferring Pharmaceuticals produce Triptorelin (also called Gonapeptyl) a medication that was mainly used to treat prostate cancer in men. In recent years it has also been used as a puberty blocker for children.

The idea that institutional capture has not occurred, which it has, on a worldwide basis, is completely ludicrous.

2012
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2012/12/04/college-basketball-transgender-player-gabrielle-ludwig-robert-ludwig-mission-college/1744703/

I started following the debate when I got kicked out of a Facebook group and told to "educate myself" in 2013. Which I did on gendertrender, the reddit "peak trans" posts and on here. I've been very actively following the debate since then.

Now I'm getting told all the time on here to "educate myself" on how to be a Proper GC Feminist. It's quite ironic really.

It's not a right vs left issue
Could have fooled me. If I raise the lobbying power, financial links to the Government and lack of transparency of Policy Exchange (source of a lot of trans stories) I get called a left wing shill blah blah. However financial links between LGBT groups and other parties (that are transparent) are being held up as "proof" the left are "captured".

Not a cricket about Kemi Badenoch being forced to go and represent a racist so the Conservatives can keep £10million. That's no problem at all.

There are many spurious claims on this thread

Oh I missed this gem but it's pretty hilarious given what I just said about irony:

you're reading third and fourth hand regurgitated opinions by TRAs and then coming on MN threads and presenting them as your own thinking

I have literally no idea where you got that from, I have as much interest in reading a TRA point of view as I do reading GLs point of view. They are just as "conspiracy theory" based.

The fact you think I'm a TRA shows how outside the mainstream you are because I'm very gender critical compared to near everyone I know irl.

Cracking post Christmas.
A pleasure to read and in such contrast to the tedious TRA - "You're all bigoted right wing conspiracy theorists being mean to me."

There are many spurious claims on this thread

I'm sure there are but I haven't yet RTFT

I started following the debate when I got kicked out of a Facebook group and told to "educate myself" in 2013. Which I did on gendertrender, the reddit "peak trans" posts and on here. I've been very actively following the debate since then.

Now I'm getting told all the time on here to "educate myself" on how to be a Proper GC Feminist. It's quite ironic really.

I didn't suggest you educate yourself. Merely that you crack the spine of a book instead of following the debate online, where arguments are emotionally manipulative and facts are lost.

It's not a right vs left issue
Could have fooled me. If I raise the lobbying power, financial links to the Government and lack of transparency of Policy Exchange (source of a lot of trans stories) I get called a left wing shill blah blah. However financial links between LGBT groups and other parties (that are transparent) are being held up as "proof" the left are "captured".

QED, the exact point I'm trying to make. Leave aside the speciousness of 'left' vs 'right' in our post-industrialist society, where the marxist definitions no longer make sense, and leave aside the fact that 'Progressivism' has its roots more in hypercapitalist consumerism and hyperindividualism than any form of materialist dialectic. The fact remains that objectons to this issue came initially in the UK from grassroots working women's groups. We were smeared as terfs, dinosaurs and bigots. But eventually our arguments gained traction so that even our ideological opponents of old, the tories, could see that it was a proper cut through issue. Which it is. I'm not voting for any party that can't define my sex class. And I hope Kemi Badenoch keeps talking about this issue. Loudly. Because she's popular even outside tory voting base. people will listen to her.

I was thinking more of Anthony Watson of GLAAD and his funding of the Labour Party.

https://gendercriticalwoman.blog/2022/04/05/labour-party-anthony-watson/

Such as?

GL believes in crazy shit and conspiracy

GL has an opinion on the Florida Bill

The capture thing

Off the top of my head without scrolling back, these are spurious claims

To be fair, he does believe in crazy shit, however that crazy shit is actually happening.

I think he has every right to hound JR, after JRs attempts to bring him down. Phoning round to try and stop people talking to GL is mental.

Phoning round to try and stop people talking to GL is mental.

Really? Blinking heck

You can't argue with a sea-lion.

Sorry I might have missed a couple of pages, why is Adam strawmanning about a law in Florida in reference to an Irishman who lives in England? And does Talcum X seriously think any TERFS want a look at his phone??!

I mean if you think of all the 'crazy shit' that turned out to be true...

'Of course the prison service wouldn't lock up violent male sex offenders, murderers pretending to be a baby and the 'most violent prisoner in Scotland' in the female prison estate on the behest of a trans lobby group who are using it as a test for introducing self id into all public services in Scotland!'

....'oh shit, they are?'

'Of course the use of puberty blockers in gender questioning children has been thoroughly evidenced as safe and beneficial! They wouldn't do it if it hadn't been! Don't be stupid!'

'....oh shit - puberty blockers have now been restricted and there's a wealth of evidence about issues around them?'

'Of course women and girls wouldn't lose out on trophies and records in elite sporting events, in some cases purely for the point of a photo opportunity!'

...'oh. Oh no'.

You forgot the one where a woman was raped on a hospital ward and the whole hospital hierarchy said there was no man on that ward. Even the police were convinced.

Yeh if we’re talking about crazy shit..

Oh, there's a fuck tonne of 'crazy shit that turned out to be true'. It could make a whole thread on it's own.

It's all made up by the right-wing press, dontcha know?

It was the self congratulatory FWR mothers probably 🤔