I think we're losing... It's gone too far

[Patty78]

It seems that everyone I talk to knows someone who is transitioning or is non-binary. I sometimes try to find out how terfy or not someone might be. And they're not because they have a niece or friend or friend's child who's trans. I feel quite alone in my thoughts.

Pronouns at the end of emails are everywhere. I've not been asked to do it yet, but I know it's coming.

I'm a freelancer. I'm on a trial period with a new client. I'm writing a script for a webnovel. The main character is non-binary but looks like a woman. I've been told that I have to write in a gender-neutral way. But it's vampire erotica. And nobody is allowed to be anything - no genitals/breasts. A lot of the other writers on this project are non-binary or FtoM. A lot of cosplay stuff. It's really hard to write. I'm upset because they clearly don't like me. I was hoping for lots of work from this client. Ties are REALLY hard. They loved the test I did for them. But they don't like my story. I just can't do this GenZ/Queer thing. I'm lost. I've always been a loony lefty, always been woke... but I'm all washed out now. I can't keep up. I'm really upset. I have to feed my kid and keep a roof over our heads, but I feel a bit pushed out. I could fake it, pretend I'm non-binary or something. I'm just very down. Very.

I feel like they're going to find out I'm in my 40s, have two tits, single mother, 6 cats... and it just won't wash. It's not cool. I don't have a TikTok where I cosplay. I don't really have much of an online presence at all. I don't pose in fetish gear on Instagram.

I live abroad. Very, very rurally. In the local arts centre I met a MtoF who just looked like a giant trucker in a dress. I know that sounds rude. And I can't believe I'm saying it because I never would have said anything like that in the past. He was complaining about going to a lesbian event and having to drive two hours to get there and that when he arrived, none of them were very nice to him. All the women I was with were comforting him and saying how terrible it was. He said there was a "very masculine energy from the butch lesbians" at the event and that they made him feel very ill at ease. I piped up and suggested that maybe that was because they were lesbians and that lesbians are attracted to women, and it did not go down well. So, I backed off. And now, I smile at him whenever I see him, and we have a pleasant chat. I don't have the courage of my convictions.

Today, I was on a phone call with an old client who might have a little bit of work for me. I told her that I was just finishing up a non-binary vamp story. To be honest, I was hoping for some "terf" company. She was delighted. Her daughter is non-binary, and her daughter's girlfriend is on testosterone. So again, I backed off.

I think this is how it will be. I can't make a living unless I play along. I feel so fed up. I really believe in women's rights, but I can't risk speaking out.

This isn't a very well-ordered post. Sorry. I needed a bit of a ramble. I'm really quite down.

I highly recommend the Feminism: Sex and Gender boards here. I have learned so much from them! There are so many amazing, articulate, intelligent women on this site.

I particularly recommend "Sue Donym"'s Substack. She is a lesbian who writes a lot about the effect of gender identity ideology on lesbians, and has done some fantastic deep dives into the origins of the trans movement, particularly around the astroturfing practiced by organisations such as WPATH.

open.substack.com/pub/suedonym/p/to-all-the-trans-lesbians-ive-ever?r=7vhv8&utm_medium=ios

No genitals. No breasts. I can get away with groins, nipples, spines, lips, tongues, eyes, skin, panting, and feeling breathless. I've also used the word penetration without saying what's being penetrated or by what. Things that cannot be described can be wet. Other things - that also cannot be mentioned - can slip and slide and rub. There's also lots of blood from various arteries and veins sloshing about the place and making a mess. And they can all orgasm. Insane. Honestly, the fucking life I lead.

Omg PLEASE write a book about your experiences trying to write this book.

I was giggling like Fuck at the above. You're great!

I know what you mean about being disheartened, but I genuinely do feel the tide is turning.

This. Like they say about cryptocurrency-once your Uber driver is talking about it, it’s time to get out.

I think it will always exist in some way now but they made a huge mistake not gatekeeping it to some medical or categorisable way. Seeing people identify as dogs, people being so careless about prisons and sports and medical words has given pause to many.

As to the Piers Morgan’s of the world it’s given me a renewed appreciation that it takes all sorts - in a war zone or burning building you need strong, gives no shits risk takers etc. We don’t need to infantilise and make cozy every space and conversation.

I'm sorry things are so tough for you, OP. I agree with others that you could write something great about your 'day job', precisely because of its awfulness.

But mostly I want to tell you that you made such a good move by posting here - you'll find a mixture of wit and intelligence and pragmatism and sometimes sheer fury. You'll find lots of support, in fact look! you already have☺

I'm not long 'of this parish' either, and before I joined I was despairing of a world that seemed to have turned upside down on me, and nobody else seemed to notice how crazy things were getting And I don't usually do despair, so it was a really dodgy time for me.
Then I discovered this lot☺
💐

OP, I think you, Graham Linehan, Simon Edge and others could write a very funny film about this stuff. But for your work, maybe play the part, for now, and see it as an undercover mission. And come here to vent! This place is great for that.

Thanks! I could go my own way and write a book about writing the book. There's something to be said about writing terfy YA fiction as well. How the hell I'd get it published, I have no idea, but there needs to be some sort of effort. If I could get paid to do that, I'd be proud.

I remember when my DD was born, there were so many books empowering girls that started coming out. It was a massive trend. Even for babies. That niche hasn't been taken over, yet. The Mighty Girl stuff. Women's History Month. It doesn't look like it's been infiltrated. There are some amazing women out there trying to educate girls about how strong they are and can be. It's an uphill struggle though.

I really saw my daughter going down that rebel-girl route - I was one of those my-daughter-won't-wear-pink / I-only-buy-wooden-toys / we grow-our-own-soup mothers for about three weeks; now I'm on the lookout in case she meets a furry in the park or decides she only wants one boob. It's been such a quick change!

This. It's your own novel waiting to happen!

@Patty78 I'm another person who thinks you should write a book about this - it would be hilarious.

The fad will be over soon - the next generation of edgy teens won't want to be associated with stuff their parents and older siblings thought was cool. And the whole thing is going to collapse under the sheer absurdity of it all. People have been kept in line by the vindictiveness, aggression and intellectual dishonesty of the TRAs, but their power is being constantly chipped away at and more people are feeling able to speak up.

I've got a feeling only about 121 Mumsnetters would read it. Now, if you're all prepared to pay a grand a copy, I'm on it. I'll sign each one and do a little personalised illustration of a vamp with no nips. You can't say fairer than that.

I’d pay good money to read it, YA fiction or grown up. It would be in the Tom Sharpe/David Lodge tradition, only you’d be skewering YA publishing instead of academic. As Simon Edge has proved, this stuff is ripe for satire.

I’m happy to say I don’t know a single person personally who is trans/non-binary or even just confused.
Pronouns are not a thing in my small school workplace and all my friends seem to be very sensible about it - we don’t really discuss it much.
Neither my 13 year old or 11 year old DDs have been captured and they seem to have no friends in This scenario either. One of the 13 year olds friends has come out as lesbian.
I do wonder if their all girls school environment makes a difference. They are LGBTQ inclusive and supportive but in a very measured way.

Me too. Well a 14 year old anyway. And her friends.

And how does erotica work without any genitals?

I would argue that the far left are just as misogynistic as the far right. Just in a different way. So I don't tend to frame it as the left versus the right. We do not need to align ourselves with a system that treats us so appallingly.

I could reel off all the marginalised groups I personally belong to in order to make my point but I find that reductive, so please believe me when I say that I have been on the receiving end of racism, misogyny, homophobia, and general poor treatment from those on either side of the political spectrum. And actually, with those on the right, their anger was more honest and easier to handle as it didn't come as a surprise.

That treatment from the left fucking hurts. And is doubly infuriating as it's so patronising to boot.

I've got 3 teens and they, and all their friends think the non-binary, gender rainbow stuff is a load of nonsense.

My idea of a computer game is seriously FarmVille and June's Journey, so God knows how this happened..it's the youtube algorithm's fault...it's led me through the rabbit hole of The Message, the Girl Boss and the Sweet Baby writers controversy in the gaming industry. In the last five years a series of very well connected consultancy agencies have been convincing game developers that they must stop catering for the needs of the traditional "gamer" you know, young "cis", heterosexual mostly white men because we are making this core audience into "picky babies" (quoting) by giving them what they want. This is important because what they want is hot sexy girls and guns, but what they need is inclusivity. The most important thing in game storytelling now is inclusion. It's not values like bravery, sacrifice, antiheroes, character development arcs..nope, it's diversity. In the last few years apparently, female game characters have stopped looking like Lara Croft and now they look...err.."plain". At first I thought this was good, because why do women have to fight monsters wearing a bikini when men wear armour? But it's not about averting the male gaze anymore...nope, the female characters now are specifically made to look more masculine to appease the trans public that demand that no one looks or acts too masculine or too feminine. It's not just looks but personality traits too..it's about gender swapping stereotypes or blurring any feminine/boundary traditional traits.

A lot of kids are so brainwashed they are pushing for this, but if you read detrans forums you will find a lot of very confused kids who dont know what gender they are or want to be under the influence of this YA fiction they consume. I think it's a huge part of the contagion and the culty flavour of the ideology.

Like you I sometimes look around the people I agree with on this subject (Liz Truss ffs) and I ask myself if we are the baddies. I don't think we are, but..oof, piers morgan, I hear you.

It's awful you are going through this, the people speaking out about what goes on in game developer teams are doing it anonymously for the same reasons you said above.

There IS pushback, but so far it's not really "mainstream" but I think it will. I also think there's a number of kids that have truly learnt this and will possibly never be able to unlearn it again, but most will. My YA at home says it's all rot as well, dont lose faith.

I think I'd be tempted to make all the Vampires Asexual and keen on knitting. They'd probably knit those intricate post box toppers that mysteriously appear.

You're so right. Anyone who starts making crocheted blankets for a street of lampposts doesn't have the time or energy for sex, do they? They'd end up asexual even if they started off feeling a bit frisky. This would make a lovely little story. A cozy vampire mystery. A new genre. I'm all over this.

I think it will be a very popular area of YA fiction! What 13 yo doesn't want to read about 600 yo Vampires dying wool with onion skins because they need just the right shade of 'brownish' for their next creative masterpiece.

If you're worried about TERFY publishers, just have a chat with our @boiledbeetle

She's self published two books of poetry, from the posters on these threads. Under the Duvet of Darkness.

I too am surrounded by the ideology. It's mad. I'm sorry you have to write it though, sounds rubbish

I really want to check how terfy my close friends are but I'm too scared. One of them has a girl with a diagnosed eating disorder who is crowdfunding for a double mastectomy because she says she is a boy and the surgery will correct her body. Now I know from personal experience exactly how an eating disorder works, especially when you are seventeen. The disease has noticed that in this climate, if she says she wants to be a boy then doctors will happily remove two significant chunks of fat from her, no questions asked.

And they fucking will

When I was at my lowest with anorexia I would have had a leg off if I thought it was possible. I would have found a way to weigh myself immediately when I woke up from surgery too

Not sure my friends and family would have sent me their hard earned money to pay for it though. Therapy in this girl's case would never work, however, because society is saying she is right, and she should be operated on. Everyone is sending money and cheering it on

I suppose tits can be annoying. She'll be able to run without them flapping around. I'm trying to see a positive, it is difficult

What a world

I’d read a book about an asexual nippleless vampire that knits postbox toppers.

Actually, I wouldn’t read it, but I would listen to it on Audible.

I’m another Mumsnetter that can attest that Gen Alpha are rejecting the WooWoo that their genderunspecificed older siblings have been so keen on.

My children are well spaced (2000, 2006, 2011) and only the middle one bought into it. Her mates were all transboys or non binary in year 8 and 9 but they are 6th formers now and desisting one by one. It’s like a modern day take on the 10 Green Bottles song, pronouns steadily being deleted from bios all over Instagram.

If we can just hold the line and continue to prevent Gender Identity from being written into law, the trans trend will be deader than disco by 2026.

Susie Green is already looking like a right Billy No Mates and once fashionable transman YouTubers with over a million subscribers are getting under 50k views on new videos (and at least half of those are probably middle aged terves disapproval-watching).

relax. think this is the year when gender woo crashes and burns spectacularly. all the court judgements are turning out on the sensible side and as the TRA's get to hear the word "no" more often they will tantrum even more than usual, which simply does our work for us. Result.

I think it will become unfashionable, there will be people looking terrible and getting ill on cross sex hormones, regretful detransitioners suing the NHS - the tide will turn in the end, but it won’t be pretty.

That sounds grim. It is like being an academic it seems. The creative sector is the worst for this stuff especially genre fiction. Thing is though actually reality is very different see Amazon's most read in 2023 list.

People actually want to read good stories. Women do and guess what they really like romance combined with other stuff. Let the enbies do their thing see how it goes. Maybe on the side write a short terfy crime / horror /thriller / scifi novel with some romance in it and sell it as an anon on Amazon. You will sell a load on mumsnet. Sell enough and you can go public.

If you don't want to be that obvious make your villains a misogynistic religious cult of some kind who are great at brainwashing or some kind of male coded supernatural/alien threat. Which is basically the truth.

Or focus on historical romance.