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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

No more puberty blockers for children from the NHS - reported in the Times!

976 replies

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/03/2024 16:21

This is massive - and long overdue

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/97ce2e81-2884-42f5-bb82-2a2778f2cc91?shareToken=9568e79f0683beea68ffe5e978b05a29

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EasternStandard · 12/03/2024 17:58

HidingBehindTheWallpaper · 12/03/2024 17:54

I just caught the very end of the Dr Bell interview as I got in the car. I’d not seen the news. Amazing stuff.

He was fantastic

He said how I feel so well

I’m angry that adults have pushed their harmful gender ideology on to children at all. And posters on here attacked and said no one cares. But so pleased it’s changing

Madcats · 12/03/2024 17:58

No mention of anything on the BBC website.

Do we reckon they will mention it?

Great news anyway.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2024 17:59

My worry about this is what it actually changes.

These drugs for this use were ALWAYS regarded as experimental. The problem was the lack of research accompanying it and this lack of research being followed up as massively problematic.

We now are being told that children WILL be prescribed puberty blockers, but only part of research. We aren't being told how many children this will involve, how they will be selected and how these children will be filtered out from those who are gay/lesbian, have a history of sexual abuse or trauma or have particularly pushy / ideologically driven parents.

This is still problematic as this is the NHS legitimising the experimentation of puberty blockers on children at a time when the evidence out there already isn't good and there's no efforts to follow up on the children and adults who ALREADY have had puberty blockers BEFORE experimenting on a whole pile of 'fresh meat'.

The WPATH files might merely be prompting a pr exercise on the continued prescribing of puberty blockers rather than addressing the concerns raised by unscrupulous clinics quoted in the files which are ethically immoral and go against pretty much all existing medical ethics wisdoms.

I don't want to be all doom or gloom but I still have concerns and don't see it as cause for celebration. It's perfectly possible that this will still result in a real terms increase in the number of children taking puberty blockers and it doesn't mean that there will be restrictions placed on those children eligible for the trial.

Melroses · 12/03/2024 18:00

Poinsettiasarevile · 12/03/2024 17:53

Right ladies, dont get too excited. What will happen to lots of kids is they will wait until they are 17, when they can move to the adult service, where there will be no clinical trials, no follow up and way fewer assessments.

This is why it is so important to gig for the up coming high court case which is specifically about these 17 y.os.

Please, if you have any pennies to spare, go to crowd justice and search for Anna Castle.

Yes - Dr Bell said there is still a problem with the treatment of 17 - 25 year olds in adult clinics on his magnificent contribution to the R4 PM programme. He said the Cass Report will not cover this.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 12/03/2024 18:00

Lead item now on radio 2

Saisong · 12/03/2024 18:01

Fewer than 100 young people are presently on puberty blockers.

Is that actually true? I guess that is just the NHS prescribed figure, rather than dodgy Gender GPs. I guess long waiting lists sometimes have a silver lining.

MadamVastra · 12/03/2024 18:03

Dr Bell in that interview 👏 👏

NumberTheory · 12/03/2024 18:04

Have just found the new policy on the NHS site. They’ve published it along with summaries of some research and the deliberations around the policy:
https://www.england.nhs.uk/publication/clinical-policy-puberty-suppressing-hormones/

Still the possibility for blockers to be prescribed outside research in “exceptional” circumstances so no change from the interim policy as far as I can see. But very explicit about the low quality of evidence that they do any good for children with dysphoria and that there are some harmful side effects.

NHS England » Clinical Policy: Puberty suppressing hormones

https://www.england.nhs.uk/publication/clinical-policy-puberty-suppressing-hormones/

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2024 18:05

NumberTheory · 12/03/2024 18:04

Have just found the new policy on the NHS site. They’ve published it along with summaries of some research and the deliberations around the policy:
https://www.england.nhs.uk/publication/clinical-policy-puberty-suppressing-hormones/

Still the possibility for blockers to be prescribed outside research in “exceptional” circumstances so no change from the interim policy as far as I can see. But very explicit about the low quality of evidence that they do any good for children with dysphoria and that there are some harmful side effects.

Quite.

This is a sanitation and 'greenwashing' type PR move imho.

pickledandpuzzled · 12/03/2024 18:07

I heard this. I was thrilled it was Evan Davies having to present it and being unable to do anything other than ‘what about the really trans children?’, before being thoroughly corrected by David Bell.

ED thought he’d said ‘ children who identify as trans’, then repeated ‘trans children’ so clearly can’t distinguish internally between ‘children who think they are trans’ and the non existent ‘actual trans children’.

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2024 18:07

I'm going to repeat. How is this new policy addressing the concerns raised by the Cass Review about the over representation of autistic children, LGB children, sexually abused children and pushy parents.

There is NOTHING on offer here that even mentions this.

EasternStandard · 12/03/2024 18:11

pickledandpuzzled · 12/03/2024 18:07

I heard this. I was thrilled it was Evan Davies having to present it and being unable to do anything other than ‘what about the really trans children?’, before being thoroughly corrected by David Bell.

ED thought he’d said ‘ children who identify as trans’, then repeated ‘trans children’ so clearly can’t distinguish internally between ‘children who think they are trans’ and the non existent ‘actual trans children’.

‘Trans children’ needs to go as acceptable

So glad to hear someone be pulled up on it

InvisibleBuffy · 12/03/2024 18:15

Saisong · 12/03/2024 18:01

Fewer than 100 young people are presently on puberty blockers.

Is that actually true? I guess that is just the NHS prescribed figure, rather than dodgy Gender GPs. I guess long waiting lists sometimes have a silver lining.

I thought it was interesting how this was framed in the article, as if its a good thing.
Imagine if the line was 'Fewer than 100 children are currently being sterilised and having their future sexual function removed' as we know blockers do.
Or compare it to other medical scandals:
Fewer than 100 children are still being lobotomised...
That's still a lot of children

IcakethereforeIam · 12/03/2024 18:16

I've just listened to the BBC radio. If I understood correctly the full Cass report will be out in April! I perhaps can see why kids currently on PBs will continue on them, I don't know what might happen to them if they were suddenly stopped. I can't understand why kids who are due to start them are, apparently, still going to be prescribed them.

I hope this means that battle that was going on in GIDS over the direction of the new service has been won by the sane.

I wish I'd learned this before I'd written to my MP. Ffs if I'd just waited an hour.

UtopiaPlanitia · 12/03/2024 18:16

Can anyone explain why, if the NHS have strong concerns about the side effects and lack of efficacy of blockers for treating gender related distress, they’re allowing the children who are currently taking blockers to continue on the medication? I would have thought the medical concerns would mean that those children should discontinue the medication to prevent future health problems.

WarriorN · 12/03/2024 18:17

Mentioned on radio 4 news headlines just now, was it on PM ?

Froodwithatowel · 12/03/2024 18:17

I agree. I suspect it's to try and minimise the panic of the type seen in children/families on blockers (heavily fanned by activists) when the Tavistock was closed. Grandfathering and not letting this happen to future children may be realistically the most we can hope for at this stage.

Boiledbeetle · 12/03/2024 18:18

Can't link as im blocked so had to nick someone's screenshot.

Sigh. completely misses the point that even for kids with precocious puberty these things aren't bloody safe!

No more puberty blockers for children from the NHS - reported in the Times!
ILikeDungs · 12/03/2024 18:19

WarriorN · 12/03/2024 18:17

Mentioned on radio 4 news headlines just now, was it on PM ?

Yes and it was pretty fabulous.

bringbacktheladiesloos · 12/03/2024 18:19

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2024 18:07

I'm going to repeat. How is this new policy addressing the concerns raised by the Cass Review about the over representation of autistic children, LGB children, sexually abused children and pushy parents.

There is NOTHING on offer here that even mentions this.

Could this part be going some way to address these things? :

"children will receive an “holistic approach to care” from clinical experts in neurodiversity, paediatrics and mental health."

EasternStandard · 12/03/2024 18:19

Boiledbeetle · 12/03/2024 18:18

Can't link as im blocked so had to nick someone's screenshot.

Sigh. completely misses the point that even for kids with precocious puberty these things aren't bloody safe!

This sounds harmful

What’s the difference to promoting other non approved drugs to children?

PronounssheRa · 12/03/2024 18:20

All eyes need to be on the 2 new units that are being set up, including who they employ, whether that is ideologues including those from GIDS or doctors that will actually employ the holistic approach which NHS England has set out.

I think that will tell us a lot.

Pointynoseowner · 12/03/2024 18:22

Thank God, wonderful news

RunningAllDay · 12/03/2024 18:22

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2024 17:59

My worry about this is what it actually changes.

These drugs for this use were ALWAYS regarded as experimental. The problem was the lack of research accompanying it and this lack of research being followed up as massively problematic.

We now are being told that children WILL be prescribed puberty blockers, but only part of research. We aren't being told how many children this will involve, how they will be selected and how these children will be filtered out from those who are gay/lesbian, have a history of sexual abuse or trauma or have particularly pushy / ideologically driven parents.

This is still problematic as this is the NHS legitimising the experimentation of puberty blockers on children at a time when the evidence out there already isn't good and there's no efforts to follow up on the children and adults who ALREADY have had puberty blockers BEFORE experimenting on a whole pile of 'fresh meat'.

The WPATH files might merely be prompting a pr exercise on the continued prescribing of puberty blockers rather than addressing the concerns raised by unscrupulous clinics quoted in the files which are ethically immoral and go against pretty much all existing medical ethics wisdoms.

I don't want to be all doom or gloom but I still have concerns and don't see it as cause for celebration. It's perfectly possible that this will still result in a real terms increase in the number of children taking puberty blockers and it doesn't mean that there will be restrictions placed on those children eligible for the trial.

I don't agree - there is a very big difference between a presumption for their use and children and parents being sold puberty blockers as life-saving medical treatment ('better a trans daughter than a dead son') - and a new situation where blockers are clearly labelled 'experimental'. I think it really is cause for celebration.

It also means that GP shared care with GenderGP is EVEN MORE obviously a bad idea if it wasn't already.

Dr Bell was great and managed to get in the 17-25yos. I particularly worry about this tranche.

PS - and a totally separate topic - I can't find the pp who mentioned precocious puberty but yes, it can happen REALLY young (like 2yo) in unfortunate endocrine disorders.