No more puberty blockers for children from the NHS - reported in the Times!

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

This is massive - and long overdue

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/97ce2e81-2884-42f5-bb82-2a2778f2cc91?shareToken=9568e79f0683beea68ffe5e978b05a29

Yep.
This update seems to be all about covering their own backsides.
Obviously that's sound advice, but it doesn't change the way that teenagers will speak to their parents. Nor what parents who can afford it will do when they believe that this is the only thing that will help their child.
I'm probably a little emotional this morning as well because I went out for dinner with a friend last night and we discussed this whole topic. She's been aware of my and my daughter's journey but not really a lot else. We talked about the latest announcement re PBs (thank you to those above who helped to clarify what had changed - I couldn't see the wood for the trees) and the significance of the "no exceptional circumstances" leading to the TRAs on social media realising that the gig was up. We talked about the WPATH files. Also about the fact that you can never go through puberty of the opposite sex, you just get no puberty. She agreed that the "100 children" figure was utter bollocks (we both talked about how many people knew people whose children were somewhere on a social transition journey). She was holding back tears. That's how so many people will feel when the magnitude of this hits them.
😪

Thank you ❤️
Unfortunately "I don't know" is the best I've got. I can't talk to her about this subject now because she closes me down. She's told me she still plans to have her breasts removed when she's older (😪) because "I don't need them" but no longer talks about gender identity.
To keep myself sane, and help her, I pour all my energy in to speaking to school and CAMHS (I have the support of my MP) on how a neutral support pathway can be created for her and others. We're making good progress specifically for my daughter (obviously my first priority) but hopefully also further than that too.
To get to the point where I could have these conversations confidently, I spent a lot of time learning about the subject, how I felt about it and how to "debate". I've had lots of difficult times, some of which I brought on myself. Some of which I electively walked in to to because it helped me to understand. I honestly wouldn't change any of it though because I learned how to have difficult conversations.
I've also found X to be a "cathartic" way of using my energy when I want to "vent it out". I've managed to keep myself calm by doing all of this and keeping the goal of helping her and others in sight.

There is also a comment from a Scottish perspective by Alex Massie:

I think my problem about the just 100 children is it neglects the issues that arise due to kids being told that puberty blockers are better than sliced bread and how they want a piece, and the impact that has as they try and argue how they want them and see it as the solution to all their problems. Only for their big meanie mother to have to do everything in their power to counter that whilst being vilified by reckless and dangerous lobby groups and a whole load of fuckwits on the internet trying to push a wedge through the relationship with their child by saying that the mother is a bigot who hates their child.

This in, and of itself, is harmful and has a definite psychological impact. It leaves the child particularly vulnerable and at the mercy of social groups that don't have their best interests at heart. As I say upthread, late transitioning males want and need teenage girls to transition for their own legitimacy. Their 'support' for teenage girls transitioning is nothing to do with the welfare of those girls. It poor self interest.

Puberty blockers have become a thing to aim for, a target to aspire to within online communities. You've 'made it' as the most authentic if you get to that stage. And yes I do think there's a certain competitive element to this in terms of being your 'true authentic self'.

It's not necessarily about actually accessing those drugs. It's also about the journey and the process and the desire to access those drugs that's been created by the media and by those championing child transition as desirable and problem solving.

It is the elixir of life in these circles. Without having any evidence of proof.

This is what crackpots with 'alternative cures to cancer' do. Give false hood when they are total charlatans who are on the Grift.

Has anyone linked this on trying to close the loophole on private prescribing?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8491fd42-a309-4bbf-b02d-305b59593996?shareToken=23eb311057501daa8514749da188d2b8

Janice Turner

One day, we’ll look back on era of puberty blockers with horror (archive.is)

Indeed.

If it's one child, it's one child too many.

Don't think this ahs been linked to yet:

It must be unpleasant as well, to be confronted by your own deepest motives which aren’t as pure as you thought they were.

I mean, I’ve examined myself regularly to see whether my squeamish revulsion at certain things was colouring my perspective unfairly.
Imagine considering yourself a nice kind supportive avuncular transwoman to a bunch of vulnerable trans kids, then realising you’d been using them to legitimise and justify yourself all along.

Imagine having self awareness that the needs of others aren't necessary exactly the same as your own.

Imagine.

Re:The Times 14 March
Photograph showing a doctor and a nurse who intend to carry on prescribing for non NHS patients. They look quite pleased with themselves. Who will be financing that continuing supply?
How can this be stopped? Will it need a campaign? Why is the mainstream medical opinion not advising the Government.
Janice Turner describing these treatments as a disaster equal to Lobotomy operations, which won a Nobel Prize for it's inventor.

Only for their big meanie mother to have to do everything in their power to counter that whilst being vilified by reckless and dangerous lobby groups and a whole load of fuckwits on the internet

Yep. To give one small example....

Earlier on this week, two things happened with my daughter. She was talking to be about women's sports. She said she felt sorry for transwomen who wanted to be in women's sports but it was a no from her. She's a very intelligent girl (her autism impacts her social emotional cognitive processing significantly but her analytical data skills are phenomenal - unfortunately she just absorbs all the "we all have a gender identity" stuff as factual data to be parsed along with everything else). We got on to the subject of Caster Semenya and explored it in depth. From bitter experience, I followed her lead. We both used "she" when talking about Caster (I'm now battle-hardened against this difficult subject after a particularly difficult debate on MN 🙃) because it kept the subject going. We both agreed that it was awful to have grown up believing that you were a female, only to find out you weren't. My daughter said that as sad as it is "she can't race with the women". I agreed and we moved on to other things. This is something else I've learned over time: when to leave it... I don't always get it right but I try.

Later on that week she announced in school, in the autism unit, in front of 3 children that "my mum is a homophobe and a transphobe". Bear in mind, she's been there when we've been having positive and brilliant conversations about her sister's friend's two dads. The friend and her brother were in care and were adopted by two lovely men who married years ago and provide a stable home for both children. Both of whom have some trauma issues. I don't know the dads that well but we've all hung out together at a festival and other things. She knows I'm not a homophobe. She probably thinks I'm a transphobe but is blissfully unaware that her own comments about women's sports are "transphobic". There is no value in me telling her this as it would just lead to an argument where she would defensively dig in. Suffice to say, I found the homophobic comment hurtful and the transphobic one.. meh.

How do I know she said this?

The head of the autism unit told me. She had stepped in because all the children were reacting in a way that was whipping my daughter up against me and thankfully, this lady is on the journey with me behind the scenes. She didn't have the experience to know how to separate out the LGB (fact) from the T (belief) but her intervention was still helpful "I know your mum and I know she's not. I also know that there are some very complicated situations going on at the moment and the adults are trying to keep the children safe". Obviously in the wrong hands, that sounds like Section 28. I did make her aware of this when I thanked her, but also made it clear how valuable that was because it tells me that something new is influencing my daughter. I can't take the internet off her (she plays online with the only 2 friends she has at school and spends lots of time learning facts about her favourite subjects... She's thirsty for knowledge and is quite the authority on tornadoes). I also can't sit on her shoulder spying. She's nearly 15.

All I can do is maintain a positive, fun, engaging relationship the best I can. She told the teachers that she wouldn't go home with me that day as she felt "unsafe". Luckily they are all over this side of things too. The school and I have had many conversations. She prefers her dad ATM so he and I tag-team keeping her grounded.

"Luckily" she says a few things that make it very clear that her distress really isn't about gender. For example she once told the CAMHS therapist (after talking to me about it in detail) that she planned to remove her lower right leg because she doesn't need that any more. Thankfully, the differential diagnosis that was done at 3 separate gates (including before/while going through the first CAMHS intervention) has all signposted towards support for body disassociation and cognitive processing as a result of autism-related puberty distress.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were some parents who would also like for their child not to go through puberty - out of a false sense of protectiveness and out of fear. I know my nine year old granddaughter is just starting to show early signs of pre puberty ...and it is quite scary; especially for girls, and their parents.

Blimey. A very good point.
With all this talk about Being Kind and not being one of those bigoted types, I should imagine lots of parents are convincing themselves and each other that it's the kind thing to do. I can think of a conversation I had with a someone (we were skirting the very edges of what was happening with my daughter - I'm actually a very private person and only share what I need to IRL) and she reflected that she didn't really mind whether her two year old boy grew up to be a boy or a girl, as long as her child was happy. For context, she's from outside the UK from a culture and country that is very religious. She blends the values of her family that she still holds dear with those that she has built herself from living outside of that bubble. She is a very successful, intelligent lady with a good job. She's one example but a metaphor for who knows how many.
There will be lots of posters who have commented on this before but it's amazing how the penny really drops (for me) when you can apply it directly to your own experience.

I've just started a thread in Petitions section that some here might want to check out if not signed already - Hold a statutory public enquiry into Gender Identity Ideology and Queer Theory

In a situation like this puberty blockers may be appropriate - but a paediatric endocrinologist still wouldn't prescribe willy-nilly. They'd do a very thorough examination and medical history.

Even when medically necessary these are very powerful drugs and must be prescribed and monitored with care.

Telling children that they can go through any other kind of puberty than the one associated with their sex is emotional manipulation and lying. I would say it's lying and manipulation that raises ot the level of child abuse, given the consequences.

The choices are puberty associated with your sex or drugs to stop it which may not be reversible (we don't know in this context) and may have lifelong effects and affect brain development, bone density and more.

Yes, they can then have hormones applied which are not normal for their sex but they won't go through puberty because it's not the same thing - puberty can't be replicated, it's very complex. What you're getting in this scenario is blocking of puberty and then artificial hormones of the opposite sex. It's not puberty at all.

That's the truth.

The fact a sitting MP is either stupid / evil enough not to know / pretending not to know this obvious fact is worrying.

@BonfireLady i just wanted to say I think you’re doing an incredible job with your DD in very very difficult circumstances 💐

Telling children that they can go through any other kind of puberty than the one associated with their sex is emotional manipulation and lying. I would say it's lying and manipulation that raises ot the level of child abuse, given the consequences.

I agree and I cannot wait for studies and general thinking to expose how we got to this dystopian level of deception and harm.

A post McCarthy post Orwell stage

Not to mention that the information about 'you can change sex' and 'blockers are safe and reversible' is being given from adults that the children have been specifically drilled and instructed in treating with extra special care and respect, and that anyone who does not agree with them is a bad person. (Your parents included.)

As the issues of trying to have conversations about safety and reality with online influencers and activists who simply cannot acknowledge or engage with facts that are not a part of their preferred reality get more and more apparent this week, the questions have to be asked in terms of child safeguarding: it's not like no one pointed these issues out. Repeatedly. And what protections should be in place around children to protect them from an adult who will try to convince the child and everyone else that their personal reality is the only truth and something is safe and desirable, even in the face of facts and obvious risk and harm?

And can we talk about the view heard from the political lobby at times, examples can be found, of even talking about safeguarding children being a questionable, extremist right wing thing, and an 'anti-trans dogwhistle'?

Oh, my goodness, BonfireLady that sounds like such a heavy load you are carrying. What a knife to the heart, but at the same time you can't be properly angry with your daughter because of her comments because she is so vulnerable. I would find it all utterly overwhelming and terrifying. At least the school is supportive and the leader of the autism group has a grasp on reality. Good to hear her dad is involved, you must make sure you have some relief. I hope your daughter can resolve her difficulties in time. Is she early teens?
Anyway... 💪and 💐

Sorry, BonfireLady*, I see you say she is 15!

I'll sign that petition @Leafstamp I'd like to know how WPATH got to be identified as the experts on this stuff. To be they seem little more that, to put it charitably, a bunch of hobbiests. The claims that they're the experts always seem to circle back to them saying that they are.

@BonfireLady

That really was not what I was suggesting at all. I just meant that puberty is a scary time for girls and their families, as it is suggestve of a move into adult, and sexualised, life.

I'm hopeful my granddaghter will not really become fully pubertal until about 12 - as both her mother and I were - give her a few more years of developing her identity first. though I understand earlier and earlier puberty is becoming the norm.

11 is now the average age for girls, 12 for boys. Andrew Doyle showed a horrific clip of a UK transwoman doctor stating the the average age was 9 (such ignorance) and pontificating about a 9 year old experiencing the menopause if she was prescribed puberty blockers.😱Apparently a leading GP in "gender affirming care"

These are the dangerous people causing such harm to children.