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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JKR vs Police Scotland?

1000 replies

IcakethereforeIam · 10/03/2024 22:02

Tras are trying to get JKR arrested.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/10/trans-activists-scottish-police-arrest-jk-rowling-crime/

https://archive.ph/5TEU4 highland fling yourself over the paywall, cos Scottish!

Thought to give IW a break.

The Hate Crime...crime(?) comes into force on 1st April, according to the article. The SNP has not engaged with any of the organisations who have expressed concerns and no-one knows what, if any, training the Police have been given.

Trans activists urge Scottish police to arrest JK Rowling over ‘misgendering hate crime’

Northumbria Police last week dismissed a complaint against the author over calling India Willoughby, a transgender TV personality, a male

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/10/trans-activists-scottish-police-arrest-jk-rowling-crime

OP posts:
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Waitwhat23 · 11/03/2024 17:48

ArabellaScott · 11/03/2024 15:45

And of course we have no shortage of willing witch prickers here.

Honestly, I've been wondering for a while if there's something in the Scottish psyche up here which made us pursue Witches with such apparent enthusiasm, embrace the most dour forms of pre-destination in our religions and to push 'progressiveness' to the point of authoritarianism.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 11/03/2024 17:48

ArabellaScott · 11/03/2024 09:53

Hadn't noticed this bit - the Police may decide something's a Hate Crime even if the alleged victim doesn't:

'Perception based recording refers to the perception of the victim or any other person. The fact that any person can perceive an incident to be motivated by malice and ill-will is of particular note to police officers or staff, who in themselves can identify that an incident is a hate incident, despite the fact that the victim has not. Some people with a learning disability, dementia, or mental health illness may not realise that they have been the subject of a hate crime or hate incident. Therefore, police staff or officers can still record it as such, based upon their own or a third party’s perception'

From Police Scotland's National Guidance

https://www.scotland.police.uk/spa-media/5yagp2ye/hate-crime-national-guidance.doc

So not only can I easily fall foul of this legislation because I'm autistic and struggle to recognise "offensive", the rozzers can decide for me whether I am the victim of a crime?

Fuck that nonsense. I'm never setting foot in Scotland again.

Did the Scottish Govt even bother to run an Equality Impact Analysis on this?

ArabellaScott · 11/03/2024 17:50

Also noting:

Some people with a learning disability, dementia, or mental health illness may not realise that they have been the subject of a hate crime or hate incident.

Does this work in reverse? Will some people with a learning disability, dementia or etc not realise they have been the perpetrator of a hate crime/incident, given there is no definition and it rests on the perception of any random person anywhere in the world others?

Waitwhat23 · 11/03/2024 17:54

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 11/03/2024 17:31

Wait, WHAT!?

£85,000 of public money for an arts project featuring 'hard-core' sex performances -

www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3gmvyxexlzo

Waitwhat23 · 11/03/2024 18:02

Waitwhat23 · 11/03/2024 17:48

Honestly, I've been wondering for a while if there's something in the Scottish psyche up here which made us pursue Witches with such apparent enthusiasm, embrace the most dour forms of pre-destination in our religions and to push 'progressiveness' to the point of authoritarianism.

It's probably best exemplified by Burns' Holy Wullies Prayer -

https://www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org.uk/poem/holy-willies-prayer/

Holy Willie’s Prayer by Robert Burns - Scottish Poetry Library

And send the Godly in a pet to pray. / — Alexander Pope. / / O Thou that in the Heavens does dwell! / Wha, as it...

https://www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org.uk/poem/holy-willies-prayer

CutthroatDruTheViolent · 11/03/2024 18:20

Interesting how it's all "gender is a social construct" but then apparently "male" is hate speech and misgendering. It's not, it's correctly sexing, which according to their own rules isn't the same thing. If India's gender is woman, his sex is still male, regardless of whether he wants to accept that or not.

But then, the movement never has been terribly consistent has it?

CutthroatDruTheViolent · 11/03/2024 18:35

(Sorry off to read the full thread now!)

ArabellaScott · 11/03/2024 19:08

Waitwhat23 · 11/03/2024 18:02

It's probably best exemplified by Burns' Holy Wullies Prayer -

https://www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org.uk/poem/holy-willies-prayer/

Fantastic climax!

Datun · 11/03/2024 19:15

I doubt they will arrest JKR.

However, I'm fairly certain they will be arresting, or at least questioning, plenty of other women.

I wouldn't put it past JKR to simply deliberately repeat what those women say, in order to highlight the issues.

maltravers · 11/03/2024 19:47

Datun · 11/03/2024 19:15

I doubt they will arrest JKR.

However, I'm fairly certain they will be arresting, or at least questioning, plenty of other women.

I wouldn't put it past JKR to simply deliberately repeat what those women say, in order to highlight the issues.

Yes, they’re bullies, they pick on those who they think are weak, not those who are powerful and might strike back.

Yogatoga1 · 11/03/2024 20:19

My child made an interesting point the other day.

all those years as a child where she was constantly being misgendered. Sometimes even after correction, and occasionally people actually arguing with her that she was a boy.

hate crimes? Is this now also unacceptable?

terffert · 11/03/2024 20:51

RethinkingLife · 11/03/2024 19:53

What claim specifically?

RethinkingLife · 11/03/2024 21:16

terffert · 11/03/2024 20:51

What claim specifically?

The claim that an NCHI has been lodged.

Although, I've just seen the archive of this Telegraph piece.

The force declined to confirm whether or not Willoughby’s claim that an NCHI had been recorded was accurate.
Asked about claims it had breached rules over logging of incidents, the force said it had no further comment.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/11/jk-rowling-india-willoughby-northumbria-police-nhci/

Police ‘broke rules by logging misgendering complaint against JK Rowling as hate incident’

Sex Matters says if Northumbria Police recorded author calling transwoman India Willoughby a man as an NCHI, it should defend its decision

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/11/jk-rowling-india-willoughby-northumbria-police-nhci

ArabellaScott · 11/03/2024 21:20

JKR can find that out, I think.

Froodwithatowel · 11/03/2024 21:35

Someone's written it on a post it and slapped it on a wall somewhere, "Yes, yes, it's logged ffs now give it a rest"

😂

Stand by Harry, JRK's legal team are braced to rip their muzzles off.

RethinkingLife · 11/03/2024 21:37

This reply has been hidden

This reply has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

IcakethereforeIam · 11/03/2024 21:48

An archive link to the Telegraph article @RethinkingLife posted just upthread.

https://archive.ph/gptxQ

Northumberland police getting awfully coy. Think they re hoping least said soonest mended. If some bizzie has been bullied into NCHIing the famous, wealthy, philanthropist JKR by IW! Well, tut!

OP posts:
Oblomov24 · 11/03/2024 21:53

Can't wait. Gets Popcorn. JKR is too strong, it's not like she could lose against IW is it? As pp said IW clearly hasn't thought this through. Grin

RethinkingLife · 11/03/2024 22:13

ArabellaScott · 11/03/2024 21:20

JKR can find that out, I think.

The hidden message linked to some quoted text on a funding site.

To paraphrase, is it still the case that people have to contact the police to find out they have an NCHI lodged against them? Like Sarah Phillimore?

In June 2020 I noticed that an anonymous Twitter account was boasting that I now had a 'record for life' of 'my hate' as my tweets on Twitter were now recorded by the police as 'hate incidents' under what was then the 'Hate Crimes Operational Guidance'. According to this guidance, the police must record what anyone tells them about being a victim of 'hate' - you can even make a report on behalf of someone else that you think is victim! The police aren't allowed to question the motives or the rationality of the person reporting. 'Hate' is given a very wide definition, to include 'dislike' and 'unfriendliness'.
I contacted my local police force to see what was going on, and they sent me 12 pages of tweets they had recorded as a transphobic and religiously aggravated 'non-crime hate incident'.
I was never told about this and thus given no opportunity challenge it. I deny I have ever been 'hateful' about anyone or any religion. I am a humanist and express satire and sarcasm about religion. Similarly I am critical of transgender ideology. I do not believe a trans woman is a woman. You cannot change biology whatever you believe.
The tweets I posted contained nothing that any reasonable person could describe as 'hatred' - for example one is discussing that my dog likes to eat cheese!
Twitter have never asked me to delete any of them so presumably do not think I violated their terms of service forbidding hateful content.
The police have refused to delete the recording and refused to tell me who gets to see this information. It is recorded against my full name, my date of birth, my home address and my email address. They have agreed to record alongside it the fact that I strongly dispute it is fair - but that only makes me more worried that they never told me they had recorded it in the first place. [Source SP's summary of her case on a well known site]

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 11/03/2024 23:14

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 11/03/2024 14:13

I have short hair, no makeup, flat shoes, jeans - nonbinary to the max. The fact that I was also the birthing and chestfeeeding parent to two children is irrelevant.

And I’m gender fluid. I had long hair in the ‘70s. I’ve just had my hair cut.

Mollyollydolly · 11/03/2024 23:57

Oh dear what a shame never mind.
Everything IW touches turns to dust.

JKR vs Police Scotland?
Tarquina · 12/03/2024 01:40

Surely the point of India being so upset about Jr calling her a man is that Jr is outing her to the world when she has the right privacy. But if India keeps on shouting from the rooftops I'm trans I'm trans I'm trans I'm trans I'm trans, then it's clearly not a secret, and so therefore what is the complaint about?

Tarquina · 12/03/2024 01:47

ArabellaScott · 11/03/2024 09:47

'A person is a member of a group defined by reference to transgender identity if the person is—
(a) a female-to-male transgender person,
(b) a male-to-female transgender person,
(c) a non-binary person,
(d) a person who cross-dresses
and references to transgender identity are to be construed accordingly'

So if a woman wears trousers and cuts her hair short, and a coworker says to her I don't like you in trousers and with short hair, it does not suit you at all. I think you would look better wearing a nice fruity dress with flowers on it and growing your hair long, this could be reported as a hate crime?

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