White, middle aged men telling us to be kind...

[MsMarch]

argh. So tedious. Just a rant really. BIL - your classic, middle aged, middle class, white male - has been posting all over social media about the importance of being kind. Lots of emotive posts about children/young teens in transition and why would anyone insist they use the male bathrooms if they don't feel comfortable etc. Patronising responses to women responding. I particularly enjoyed (not really) his faux "I'm still thinking but this is a concern but I'm sure we can come up with a solution" response to someone asking about men in women's sport.

Argh.

Never ceases to amaze me how men like BIL are so often the ones who have th most to say, and are the most insistent that us women must be "kind" because these poor boys/men need our sympathy.

No response necessary. Just wanted to rant.

Ah, the Laurie Penny gambit. The Wi Spa sex offender link, maybe?

Ask him why K Dolatowski should be allowed to attack little girls in falsely labelled 'women's' toilets.

And why men's feelings trump women and children's safety

'So rare as to be irrelevant'. Nice. So he should be able to give the number he's comfortable with. The number of young girls assaulted and traumatised in the cause of not making biological males sad.

Mine is zero. I suspect yours is, too. He should be able to say what his is.

@teawamutu I couldn't agree more. But you know the type - patronising and totally believes he's right. So these sort of questions land up with him acting like I'm totally unreasonable to even question him.

And no, he's not my favourite relative!

OP I have an older bro like that. He's married but no children. Both of them have done very well for themselves . Mortgage paid off long ago etc. Wait for it... both from a science background! Yep absolute nuggets! Doesn't affect them in the slightest so they don't give a fuck. And we should be kind. We don't chat much. No loss really.

Oh, he doesn't dispute that someone who has transitioned is still biologically their original sex. He just thinks that letting them act and behave according to their gender is perfectly fine, with the possible exception of sport (but he's not convinced).

"Does it really impact you if someone wearing a dress who is a biological man uses the change room? Why can't you just be kind to the poor soul?"

Why can’t they be kind to me? And my daughter?

Is usually my response to this. But I know exactly the type of male you’re referring to and they’re arrogant and smugly self-assured and self-righteous enough to not give any thought to the notion they might ever be wrong.

Why can’t they be kind to me? And my daughter?

Yes, this was 100% my response.

But as you say, there's a type. And ultimately, the comfort of any male is ALWAYS more important than the comfort of a female, even a child. They will never ever see this as what is happening, but we all know the truth.

Sigh.

I do feel better for having the opportunity to rant on here to likeminded women though! Thanks!

If he doesn't think his niece deserves dignity, privacy and respect he sounds like a bit of a groomer tbh.

So there are two groups of ‘she’s’, but he is only focusing on the feelings of one group of these ‘she’s’ Whilst disregarding the feelings of the other group of ‘she’s’.

Nothing, nothing reveals more clearly that he actually really sees one of those groups as ‘he’s’ than this.

Men like him never show up for females, only for males.

Has anyone ever tried the questioning approach? Why do we segregate at all?

I’d love to see someone explain the point of segregating by gender.

Men who are are keen to offer up women’s stuff should focus on their own sex class and welcome trans women and be kind

"Does it really impact you if someone wearing a dress who is a biological man uses the change room? Why can't you just be kind to the poor soul?"

Why doesn’t he be kind to the poor soul and get changed with them?

So the foolproof way to avoid a sexual assault is not to look at the offender’s genitals? Alright then.

No wonder men don’t think this is a big deal. Turns out you can choose to avoid it very easily!

(And as if you need to look at genitals, but that’s a separate point.)

This with fucking bells on.

People like this are either dodgy AF or very privileged to never have been affected by sexual assault and lacking the capacity to empathise with those that have. Neither category is worth knowing IMO.

I do have "be kind" friends mind you, but they all hold deeply TERFy opinions without realising it. They will "get it" eventually (and it's usually TRAs that push them there). It's rare to come across fully paid up idealogues in the wild.

My reply to imbecilic men like this is :

SOME men are predators and will abuse women and girls so ALL men are kept out of women's spaces to protect us.

SOME Trans identifying males are predators and will abuse women and girls so ALL Trans identifying males should be kept out of our spaces to protect us.

Why do people STILL not see this ???

They seem to think that there are magic force fields in women's spaces that keep the "bad men" out.

Until there are.... keep TF out as we are not collateral damage to men and boys hurty feelz!!!

But does he not understand we actually do penalise ALL men because of the actions of the few? Has he ever wondered why no men are allowed in women's single sex spaces? It's not because they are all predators but because some are, so why can't he see the same is true of men who now claim to be women? Some of those will statistically be predators.

And if I had a 9 year old daughter I wouldn't be letting him off so easily.

You may have to lay out to him exactly what his words are allowing to happen under the be kind guise.

I would be making much of the fact that obviously he isn't very bright if he can't understand how dangerous letting grown men with cocks (and boys who are old enough to be able to assault and rape younger girls) into spaces with little girls in a state of undress is.

He can lead a campaign on WHY trans identifying males might not feel 'comfortable' in male spaces!!!!!! Maybe then he'll realise a teeny tiny bit more of why girls and women are fearful of predatory, intimidating behaviour.

I hate with an unusually passionate hate (I don't usually operate in extremes) the hashtag #BEKIND.

I think kindness is a valuable and powerful thing, capable of calming and curing pain and conflict. It has a powerful role in social interaction. I believe in it, I practise it, I wish more people did ....hang on, I'm about to segue into 'I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony'😏

Pulling back from self-parody...the use of #bekind to silence women defending our rights has corrupted the word 'kind'. Unforgivable.

I suggest a counter-hashtag: #BEREAL.

I don’t blame you OP. This would really grind my gears too.

Would you be so offended if it was a young black lesbian, or a jew or an islamist

Yes I would. Why wouldn't I be? People don't get a pass on offensive behaviour just because they have a protected characteristic.

This issue is just a no risk way (to himself) of signalling what a liberal right on chap he is, without having anything affect him personally or having to think too deeply

I think you've just summed up most of the men who support this.

Absolutely this.

Yup, this is absolutely the truth.

I love all these arguments…. But they don’t have any impact. Instinctively misogynist man remember? He just dismisses such arguments.

I find it easier just to avoid him. On plus side, he does his best to avoid me too!

Missing the point somewhat!