Mention of dangerous Terf-led lesbian bar

[QuetzalTerfLus]

Article here on a new trans-inclusive “lesbian” bar, with nice dig at the horrid old lesbians who may not want men in their spaces.

I guess this is an opinion / review piece but still quite surprising to see “Terf” being used in mainstream press. And I thought the Standard had undertaken to be balanced in its journalism.

https://www.standard.co.uk/going-out/london-lesbian-bar-la-camionera-tiktok-b1142159.html

Anita Rani has the critical thinking skills of a wet mop. Women's rights deserve so much more than she is capable of giving.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m in total agreement with you, transmen and lesbians belong together.

But I’m a total terf, so that makes you at least a cryptoterf, maybe even an actual terf.

Welcome to Terf Club! 🍹🍹

Again, your argument is based on people wanting to vote for a party, but feeling they need to create a cause to do so. Why do you think people need to manufacture a cause rather than just voting for their preferred party?

Because, taken at face value, that’s an bonkers argument. I’m giving you a chance to explain why it’s not.

Ditto. I used to go to lesbian bars with lesbian friends in the 1980s. It's pretty clear I'm not a lesbian, but the atmosphere at the bars was fun.

However, just like going with my gay male friends to gay (male) bars, there's a point at which I feel I'm intruding into a space & culture that I have no place in. I have a couple of drinks & leave - after all, as a straight woman there are plenty of places for me. Not somuch for lesbians & gay men.

🍸🍸

Feck the Gender Recognition Act 2004, can somebody not invoke the Trade Descriptions Act 1968?

I can't imagine anything more boring than hanging out in a bar with a load of nonentites droning on endlessly about their incomprehensible "identities".

From what I gather Alex is a female who likes dressing in ways more typically associated with males? OMG that's so radical in twenty-first century Britain.

However it's a private enterprise and they're open about who they're trying to attract - I guess we'll see if there's a viable market or not.

"It is a trans and non-binary inclusive space that does not tolerate discrimination of any kind."
Except against those annoying lesbians who want a bar for women only and won't sleep with men.
But who cares about them?

So Alex is a woman and her partner is a man. Same as me then.

Nah, I'm not particularly GC, at least not in the same sense you mean. I am amused that now it's been pointed out that Alex is trans masc the thread has done the usual shift from 'Bad predatory man!' to 'Pitiable lesbian' or 'Unremarkable lesbian couple' like you weren't ready to metaphorically rip him apart before you knew. I'm sure it'll settle into an evens situation with a touch of 'sex traitor' at some point too. You never seem to know quite what to do with butches & lesbian oriented trans mascs, and you never really bother even trying to connect with us beyond tokenisation, either, so I'll pass on the 'one of us' schtick.

I wish both enterprises well. I suspect they're both on a hiding to nothing given the historical situation with lesbian venues.

You never seem to know quite what to do with butches & lesbian oriented trans mascs, and you never really bother even trying to connect with us beyond tokenisation, either, so I'll pass on the 'one of us' schtick.

Have you not yet realised that loads of terves ARE lesbians? That lesbians are pretty much the OG terves?

Seems to me that you have a massive blind spot.

Nope. I see you very clearly. I watched you all shitting on Alex on this thread, I see GCs hand wave away butches being harassed in women's spaces (although we might get some headpats if we're noble & take it without complaint) and I see the wide eyed scorn about he/him lesbians, as though it's a new concept, because your only lens is reheated 2nd wave polilez prudery, if not just outright ignorance.

I know you think you have really impressive talking points, but when push comes to shove, you prefer gnc lesbians when we're pets and you're very willing to pitch us squarely under the number 57 when expedient. I saw a thread on here where someone was asking if they could get away with excluding a trans masc lesbian from a social group & it was pure mean girl shit in the replies. Many of us see that and don't trust you in the slightest.

Couldn’t make it up. Cries about the lack of space for homosexual females but then is outraged by the creation of one specifically for that purpose. Well I don’t care if I’m a grumpy old lesbian, my wife and I both want our spaces back and creepy men kicked out!

As a lesbian 100%! As long as they weren’t homophobic any woman would be welcome in a lesbian bar to me. To be completely honest I used to enjoy going to a lesbian bar that had a regular server who was a gay man.

Even that was never an issue for me, as he wasn’t a threat and was never anything other than a delight. Men who claim to be ‘lesbians’ and tell us to suck their girlcocks are an entirely different prospect

Screnshots pls. MN has 10 million users (including you) so not everyone is going to say/think the same stuff. You want to paint us all as a big, Tory voting borg.

I actually have quite a lot of sympathy for female people like Alex, who find themselves struggling to fit into their natural communities because they’ve altered their appearance so much they (quote from Alex) are assumed to be ‘cismen’. It’s a big issue for detrans women and often a catalyst in the detransition decision. The recent decision of several older, long term transmen to refer to themselves as ‘bearded lesbians’ is an illustration of how hard is to come back from FtM transition, especially if you have no interest in performing femininity/wearing clothes from the women’s section.

You have no idea how many of us here are lesbian/butch/GNC, pop along to a terf event sometime and find out.
As for the prude thing, well I just don’t want to see anyone’s cock, ta very much.

You're not all a tory voting borg, no. There's enough of you holding your nose to do it that it's become a trope, but that's a problem for you, not me.

Your 'sympathy' for Alex after the vicious start of the thread is exactly what I mean about the hollow ring of GCs. And as I said, GCs like to point out the masc lesbians among them, so I know you exist.

And as for the cock comment? My prude reference was about polilez prudish weirdness about actually homosexual oriented lesbians, particularly butch/femme, I made no reference to knobs whatsoever and I didn't have them in mind, either. But congratulations, I usually get penis shouted at me with three sentences whenever I engage with GCs so you at least surprised me there.

I wasn’t on the start of the thread. Are people not allowed to join in on page 3?

It'd be nice to think that if you were on the start of the thread you'd have said 'actually, Alex is trans masc' but I've seen this play out enough to know there's a slim chance of that. But as I said, the predictable shift from 'urgh, nasty trans creep' to 'poor sad victim' occurred anyway.

That definitely happened on the previous thread about this business venture.

The only thing that seems sad to me about Alex is that Alex appears to be a talented artist who can’t make enough money out of that talent to not need to work in hospitality.

But that’s London life in the 2020s, rather than anything to do with terfism.

Clara’s jewellery is very good too.

I know you think you have really impressive talking points

Backatcha. Do you even hear yourself and think your point of view sounds coherent? Banging on about how terrible "GCs" are for pointing out that this isn't actually a lesbian bar. It's a false claim, of course people will point that out.

I pointed out that you were all merrily imputing the worst motives to someone who actually has every right, even by your standards, to create and run a sapphic focused venue.

The fact that you all don't like the FLINTA demographic focus is none of my concern. They've not hidden it, so if someone is troubled by it not being a separatist venue, they're free to go the L bar if they want.
It's quite evident that Alex wouldn't be welcome there either, so it looks like two venues in a currently sparse landscape that will cater for different demographics, which seems like a win to me.

There's not one bit of this that is incoherent.

I do at least agree about most of this.

And for those who were disparaging the donations - it's a kick-starter which many businesses focused on a specific community will utilise alongside traditional business loans.

A female who is in a relationship with a male...makes this a straight couple.

🙄😆 in the spirit of 'welcome, you're a terf' in earlier posts, congratulations, trans ally.