Elon Musk and new pronoun rules on Twitter

[PriOn1]

It seems that people on Twitter face being penalized again for correctly sexing people and using their original names.

The new rules were quietly introduced, and Musk originally said he was “looking into it.”

Now it seems he has caved, defensively claiming that it’s only for “repeated, targeted harassment”.

So much for free speech. I guess now he’s taken a load of money from people in return for a blue tick, extra words and increased visibility, he has decided to shaft them all again. Bizarre behaviour.

Methinks the loonie part was just projection.

I hate all this BS. Surely a person uses I or me as their pronoun, I would never use those for someone else..... No problem.

More than anything, all this pronouns nonsense is indicative of the sad state of grammar knowledge in society.

People are so confused about it that somehow ‘he said he liked cake’ is now direct harassment addressed at the cake-liking individual.

According to what twitter actually wrote, that IS the problem. You’re failing to use the pronouns they use themselves. 🤯

Because saying that they will punish people for using pronouns that aren’t what an individual wants everyone else to use when they talk about or think about them sounds less like victimisation and more like control.

Apart from the compelled speech side of it, the ignorance of grammar is grating. Then there's the fact no one even uses pronouns for anyone when they're talking to that person. Why would you when the person is right there?!

Yes Bananas. If someone has declared their pronouns and people don’t use those pronouns and are reported, they will be punished by Twitter.

It is not free speech at all. The entire framing of using pronouns is kind and it is to be followed by everyone in the world is absolutely abusive and coercive control. But apparently, it is ok because it is ‘kind’ and ‘nice’ to do so.

I concur.

Is it just me or are they selling tickets somewhere for people to do drive by insults at Mumsnet users at the moment?

There seems to have been a recent influx of "you are all terrible bigoted Arseholes" posters.

I'm not on Twit/x but if I were, I would not use inaccurate
pronouns, but use the person's name every time, no matter how clunky.
Or leave.

I think I remember that poster of old. So not a new ticket holder, more like an occasional flyer.

100%.

If someone’s pronouns are they/them and you’re constantly finding a way to refer to them as he/him or she/her to piss them off, why should that be allowed?

I don’t understand why you’d purposely call someone something different to what they’ve asked to be called. One of my managers is non binary and their pronouns are they/them, it’s not really hard to stick to that

A particular problem arises when the individual demanding inappropriate pronouns is a powerful man.

Admiral Levine, for example, tweets out about women’s history month and many women have voiced their resentment of a man’s interference in women’s politics.

Are women who have valid feelings of resentment against such men not allowed to speak the truth about why they feel that way?

Pronouns are political. Muting one side of a discussion on the grounds that it’s considered impolite is never the way forward.

It’s never going to be possible to apply such a rule in a fair way.

So much for free speech

It's not a free speech issue. Like MN, it's a privately owned website, and no-one has to use it. They can apply whatever rules they like.

No, it isn't. No-one compels you to use X/Twitter.

Because pronouns don’t belong to the person who decides to change the English language to suit their identity. They obviously can choose their name, but not how people speak about them when they are not there. A name reflects material reality. It is a unique identifier for that person.

Pronouns are not unique identifers in many people’s opinion. They follow the language constructs that we need for communication.

You, personally, wish to support someone’s philosophical belief about themselves. That is fine. Others don’t wish to support that belief for valid reasons of their own.

They can. However, they sold a product based on their claim that they were going to allow freedom of speech and specifically with regard to this topic. That’s fraud, I believe, and at the very least, opens them up to very reasonable criticism.

Use of preferred pronouns should not be dismissed as ‘harmless’ thing to do. There are mounting examples where pronoun usage has been directly linked to convincing organisations to make policies that harm female people. Such as McKinnon/Ivy convincing sporting organisations as an academic that to deny male inclusion in female sports category would be cruel since the world views them as ‘female’. Because they have ‘female’ pronouns.

This argument has been used successfully repeatedly.

Also, in situations where women and girls are expecting a female single sex provision, someone using a ‘preferred’ pronoun may mean that women and girls using that provision are now under the belief that a person there is ‘female’ when they are not. How ‘kind’ is that? So, no. Using ‘preferred’ pronouns should never be dismissed as a harmless act.

And that is without even touching on the impact it can have on children- including those who claim to have a trans identity.

It seems that you’re missing the point. The topic of your current thread is about Elon Musk and the use of incorrect pronouns on Twitter (or X) right?

If someone is repeatedly and purposely using pronouns different to what someone has asked to be referred too, just to piss that person off, why should that be allowed? That’s a completely different situation in comparison to this. ‘Admiral Levine, for example, tweets out about women’s history month and many women have voiced their resentment of a man’s interference in women’s politics.’

It’s also not just men that would like to use certain pronouns. All of the people I know that use different pronouns are non-binary women. It seems as if you’re upset that you’ll face repercussions for purposely using different pronouns to the ones that the person has asked you to use? Surely, this wouldn’t impact you as why would you continuously interact with someone who you disagree with or don’t like?

No one’s asking you to support it. But again, why would you continuously and purposely interact with someone you don’t support? I’m not sure why anyone would be bothered by this unless you’re literally on the internet trolling people

There is a difference between targeted harassment and refusing to lie though.

It's a bit like not mentioning your friend is obese. If they ask you directly, that's on them, but we mostly amble along together politely not mentioning things. If someone obese insisted they were skinny and all clothes sizes need to be changed to reflect that they felt they were a size 8 - then we'd be in the realm of TRA debate.

Still, you would find an honest way to discuss it without it becoming a personal attack. I'd want Twitter to stop anyone who answered back with a "you look like a whale" comment, rather than a reasonable point.

I don't really want GCs grouped in with the sexist/homophobic comments that you do see, any move towards better on line etiquette is a good thing, I think.

Its the same issue as the BBC complaint. You may not mention reality or facts or your own beliefs or perceptions, because a tiny number of people will kick off if not enabled at all times, and demand to control everyone else.

Just no.

It’s not my job to facilitate & endorse people’s fantasies. Men are not women, women are not men, and non binary is just utter bollocks by people who think they’re somehow special when news flash everyone is fucking NB

I can’t believe in tne week when the majority of media outlets reported the murderer SB as a woman and only edited it on the basis of complaints and even then very feebly that the danger of enforced pronoun lying has to be pointed out

Because if you are raising the alarm that an extreme trans activist is spreading misinformation and doing so by quoting their tweet, I would assume that would be considered ‘harassment’. Sure, you can use the cumbersome approach of finding a way to avoid pronouns, but stating the obvious ‘Here is a male declaring he should be included in the UK female team’ is much clearer and accurate than ‘x is declaring she should be included in the UK female team’.

Even ‘Here is a male declaring she should be included in the female team’ leads to obfuscated communication.

Or are people not supposed to counter misinformation on a platform that has become an information sharing resource? They just should let it stand because someone says they don’t need to interact.

And yet, reporting of any misuse of pronouns will be reported. So, Twitter x will see no difference really. Because who is going to adjudicate this? The team from the Twitter? We have already seen what happened with that team before. Why would it be any different?

Can you tell us how people pushing back on conflicts where male people’s demands are prioritised over female people’s is anyway like ‘sexist/homophobic’ comments?

The 'I have a problem/have caused a problem and it's all your fault for noticing it or not enabling me/daring to criticise me' thing is a very, very frequent flier in this political movement.

Talking back to someone who feels entitled to control you or disadvantage you is not 'harassment' unless your social perceptions are quite significantly distorted.

The thing is though you don't have to interact with the person to fall foul of the new Twitter rules.

There is a man I loathe on Twitter, he's a sexist twat who thinks despite having no GRC he can just use women only spaces as and when he likes. He constantly misrepresents the law and about 80% of the time talks out of his arse.

I don't interact with him, In fact I have him muted so that I don't see his posts at all.

However some people I do follow screenshot some of his more ridiculous pronouncements and if I'm on a thread and someone posts his latest derisory comments on what he thinks women should do in order for him to live out his fantasy and use women as unwitting and unwilling players in his fantasy I might comment on that. I'm not interacting with the knobhead, I'm not searching him out, but I will in my response to someone else correctly sex the man as a man and call him he.

The man I have called a man/he could then see my post and report me for using the wrong pronouns when talking about him.

Am I not even allowed to talk about something connected to that man now?