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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Elon Musk and new pronoun rules on Twitter

116 replies

PriOn1 · 02/03/2024 05:01

It seems that people on Twitter face being penalized again for correctly sexing people and using their original names.

The new rules were quietly introduced, and Musk originally said he was “looking into it.”

Now it seems he has caved, defensively claiming that it’s only for “repeated, targeted harassment”.

So much for free speech. I guess now he’s taken a load of money from people in return for a blue tick, extra words and increased visibility, he has decided to shaft them all again. Bizarre behaviour.

Elon Musk and new pronoun rules on Twitter
Elon Musk and new pronoun rules on Twitter
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Froodwithatowel · 02/03/2024 19:33

If someone’s pronouns are they/them and you’re constantly finding a way to refer to them as he/him or she/her to piss them off, why should that be allowed?

If someone's chosen unusual pronouns they would like everyone to use for them and is constantly working on you to comply with their control of your language and jump through the hoops they require - without interest in what barriers this presents to you, never mind how pissed off you are or how you feel about saying things you perceive as not only a forced lie against your beliefs but a deeply harmful lie? Why should that be allowed?

Why is the trans person the only one who's thoughts, feelings, needs, wishes and preferences matter here? And why do they have no responsibilities to others at all, while everyone else supposedly has all these responsibilities towards them?

Froodwithatowel · 02/03/2024 19:45

'Cry bullying' was mentioned in a recent court case. It's relevant. When someone coerces and controls (and enlists others to get you in line) because of claiming fragility and distress caused by you and your refusals to comply with what they want?

It's not a good thing.

Helleofabore · 02/03/2024 19:56

Froodwithatowel · 02/03/2024 19:33

If someone’s pronouns are they/them and you’re constantly finding a way to refer to them as he/him or she/her to piss them off, why should that be allowed?

If someone's chosen unusual pronouns they would like everyone to use for them and is constantly working on you to comply with their control of your language and jump through the hoops they require - without interest in what barriers this presents to you, never mind how pissed off you are or how you feel about saying things you perceive as not only a forced lie against your beliefs but a deeply harmful lie? Why should that be allowed?

Why is the trans person the only one who's thoughts, feelings, needs, wishes and preferences matter here? And why do they have no responsibilities to others at all, while everyone else supposedly has all these responsibilities towards them?

Edited

There really seems no symmetry given here. It all seems to be one way only and that is ‘it is not that hard, just be nice and give the person the comfort of thinking they have truly changed sex. That the rest of the world supports their philosophical view on life. Nothing else should matter. Just do it! Why is it so hard!’

Meanwhile, women are describing the ways this opens women and girls to harm and being dismissed. Or told they are exaggerating the repercussions because ‘well, ‘I’ don’t interpret it like that.’ It is one step away from making accusations about being hysterical.

Meanwhile, no coherent reason to prioritise pronouns over material reality has been presented. It is truly all based on emotion and emotional manipulation.

catsrus · 02/03/2024 20:28

Elon has clarified - it seems this is mandated after a court case in Brazil, and on,y applies to Brazil. X are appealing.

Elon Musk and new pronoun rules on Twitter
Helleofabore · 02/03/2024 20:41

catsrus · 02/03/2024 20:28

Elon has clarified - it seems this is mandated after a court case in Brazil, and on,y applies to Brazil. X are appealing.

My confusion is that the policy is not ring marked as just Brazil. It seems to have been rolled out to everyone. Ie. I found it very easily and it doesn’t say anything about being for Brazil only.

So, either this team that we are supposed to believe is a ‘new’ and fairer team that will be managing the fairest Twitter moderators ever? or the team has taken the events in one country in the world and used it to drastically over reach and roll it out in every country the first opportunity they could and figured they could get away with it?

I wonder what is going to happen now? What is Elon going to do?

Winnading · 02/03/2024 20:50

Tatonka · 02/03/2024 05:36

I honestly have no idea why you'd purposely call someone different to what they call themselves. It's just rude. It's not nice in any situation ie not pronouncing someone's name correctly etc.

People pronounce my 5 letter name a myriad of ways.
I find it pointless to be offended.

If this is the biggest problem in someones life,then they are doing well.

I now joke about some of the better pronunciations.

Helleofabore · 02/03/2024 20:58

Winnading · 02/03/2024 20:50

People pronounce my 5 letter name a myriad of ways.
I find it pointless to be offended.

If this is the biggest problem in someones life,then they are doing well.

I now joke about some of the better pronunciations.

My very basic 4 letter name is also open to about 4 or 5 different pronunciations and that is with native English speakers. It never even occurred to me to bother correcting someone.

Particularly if it is someone who has English as a second language and is relying on their own understanding of the English language pronunciation.

Obviously I should have been correcting people and been more insistent my chosen pronunciation.

PurpleSparkledPixie · 02/03/2024 21:31

Justme56 · 02/03/2024 12:50

I’m not sure where Musk is going on this. Obviously this is an example where stating that there are 2 sexes has come up as hateful conduct and visibility has been limited. It seems a little more is going on than targeted harassment.

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1763783532042649888?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

That post just says Fixing. Can you remember what it said?

Froodwithatowel · 02/03/2024 22:30

It's one of those moments when I pause to goggle that suddenly, so suddenly, I live in a world where it's actually considered hateful to speak a very, very simple and basic fact. A fact. To the point of courts getting involved to make people lie about and hide this fact.

Wtf other facts are suddenly going to become illegal to speak aloud?

Boiledbeetle · 02/03/2024 22:34

PurpleSparkledPixie · 02/03/2024 21:31

That post just says Fixing. Can you remember what it said?

He was replying to the tweet shown in the screenshot I've attached

Elon Musk and new pronoun rules on Twitter
PurpleSparkledPixie · 02/03/2024 23:55

Thank you. I'm not on twitter so can only see the immediate bit that's linked, rather than the whole bit.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 03/03/2024 00:14

Tatonka · 02/03/2024 05:36

I honestly have no idea why you'd purposely call someone different to what they call themselves. It's just rude. It's not nice in any situation ie not pronouncing someone's name correctly etc.

I call myself ‘me’. Can I expect there to be a reply from you along the lines of “I don’t agree with me”?

Zodfa · 03/03/2024 08:17

Musk's decisions are based purely on his own ego. He isn't on anybody's "side" but his own.

ClutchingOurBananas · 03/03/2024 12:56

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 03/03/2024 00:14

I call myself ‘me’. Can I expect there to be a reply from you along the lines of “I don’t agree with me”?

You’d hope so, given how rude it would be to use pronouns that differ from the ones you use for yourself.

Or to be polite: One would hope so, given how rude it would be to use pronouns different from the ones I use for myself.

Thats not going to cause any confusion.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 03/03/2024 13:55

BarbieDangerous · 02/03/2024 10:22

This conversation isn’t going to get us anywhere as we have both interpreted the tweet/new rules very differently.

I read it as, constantly and purposely using a different pronoun to the one that the person has asked you to use, will result in reduced visibility of posts. I did not read it as, if you make one comment challenging a person and using their incorrect pronoun by doing so, will result in repercussions. Interacting with someone once and using their incorrect pronoun obviously isn’t the same as doing it constantly and on purpose.

Just so you know, men who claim to be women are really not the only people in the world who want to change their pronouns. I also don’t get why you’d constantly interact with someone you don’t like/don’t agree with to the point where they can report your posts and Twitter will take action. Seems like a hell of a lot of time spent on someone you have no interest in

This use of “correct” or “incorrect” really gets on my nerves. Since when did the use of third person pronouns based on someone’s sex become “incorrect”, because that person would prefer me to call him “she”? For the first five decades of my life it was absolutely clear that third person pronouns reflected the sex of the person referred to, not what that person sees his or her “gender identity” as. That usage really hasn’t become incorrect because a younger generation insists that it has, any more than “wicked” has lost its old meaning just because some young people use it as a term meaning “wonderful”.

Dineasair · 05/05/2024 15:24

BarbieDangerous · 02/03/2024 09:33

100%.

If someone’s pronouns are they/them and you’re constantly finding a way to refer to them as he/him or she/her to piss them off, why should that be allowed?

I don’t understand why you’d purposely call someone something different to what they’ve asked to be called. One of my managers is non binary and their pronouns are they/them, it’s not really hard to stick to that

Because humans can’t change sex therefore we are being forced to lie, that’s compelled speech. Anyone can believe what they like, but they can’t force me to believe it too, and we shouldn’t be forced to pretend that we do in order to avoid upsetting someone else’s delusions.

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