Will Labour introduce Self ID & curb free speech?

[Heylo]

I’ve never voted Tory, but as a lesbian woman who plans to have children (and obviously as a woman!) I am and will be part of the three groups most affected by Gender Ideology; women, lesbian and soon I hope a Mother. I am really worried about what happens when Labour takes power. The Tories have been rubbish no arguments there but at least they are finally moving against the steam rolling of Gender Ideology. I’m thinking Labour are not that fiscally different to the Tories and have said they will not cap bankers bonuses and they don’t intend to increase public spending in a significant way.

Really concerned about more gender identity clinics popping up under Labour and Keir Starmer possibly curbing free speech via so - called hate laws (in the feminist circle i run in we all agree this is a euphemism for silencing women about men in female prisons, rape shelters and other areas where women are vulnerable).

wonder what everyone else thinking?

He probably knows quite a lot about the education system then.

What a sneering post.

I wonder if the Tories will actually get round to banning "conversion therapy" before the next GE. This will be another area where freedom of speech is undermined when / if it is finally brought in as legislation particularly in relation to trans "conversion therapy". Also the expansion of the online harms legislation. I think there are several areas of potential concern. it'll be interesting to what Labour have to say in relation to this once they start campaigning closer to the GE.

Maybe @AdamRyan and @PP82 can have a quick chat amongst themselves and decide whether fascists are already in government or not an imminent threat to the UK then get back to us?

PP82 · Today 17:02

He probably knows quite a lot about the education system then. What a sneering post.

It's not sneering at all. I was merely pointing out that you had given the impression that you are a highly qualified educator, to give your words authority. It's a bit like "I'm in the recycling business," which most people would probably conclude that the person talking was the business owner, not a bin man.

I'm not sure why we have to agree on this. Different opinions are allowed, I believe.

Or Tony Soprano in the waste management business 🤔

Yes....

If @AdamRyan really is a one time floating voter who is now a LP member it would certainly explain their apparent inability to understand why so many longstanding Labour supporters now feel unable to vote for the party or are at best conflicted about doing so. Many of us are utterly disgusted at the way the party has completely disregarded the voices of ordinary women. We aren’t naive, we understand the party has always had problems with various types of bigotry including misogyny (Lee Anderson after all started life as a Labour councillor), but the more recent descent into identarian politics seems to have seen the party completely take leave of its senses.

Or maybe we all just collectively got to the age where we wouldn’t take the party’s shit any more.

Why isn't any of this reflected in the polls?

Not even a tiny bit.....

@SinnerBoy I've worked directly with children and young people in support roles and out of school settings in the UK, and as a teacher outside of the UK (nursery, state primary, private and international schools.) I've also worked as an educational consultant and teacher training provider. I'm not qualified to work in a UK state school.

I'm planning to move into child mental health in the next few years.

According to a poll of more than 5,000 people by YouGov, Labour now has a 28-point lead over the Tories among women, compared with a 21-point advantage among men

So despite the increasing desperate attempts to pretend that Labour will "erase" women, its not working.

IF they vote. According to IPSOS the figure of those who said they are absolutely certain they would vote is around 57%, down from 72% 4 years ago. YouGov place the percentage of those absolutely certain to vote around 50%. As I said, many longstanding Labour supporters are conflicted, they are more likely to abstain than to add their vote to Tory numbers

If this is true (haven't seen the data) do you REALLY think it's got anything to do with trans rights/gender issues?

And the polls were right about Brexit? And the last general election?

No. They really weren't.

Because people know the 'right' answer to say (to avoid hassle and being scolded) but tended to vote as they actually want in the privacy of a voting booth.

Edited as replying to wrong user. Ignore.

I have to say, the combination of PP's and Adam's posts about the upcoming Labour Utopia are, um, rather exquisite.

People know when they ought to be damned well ashamed of themselves.

But thats irrelevant to the issue.

The polling i quoted is from last September.

4 years ago, Labour were in disarray, the worst GE defeat for 75 years, anti-Semitism and a resurgent Tories and all pre pandemic - a different world to today.

My point is that if Labour presented a threat to women, do you not think women ourselves would see this?
I see the threat to women is from Austerity, more Austerity and tax cuts favouring higher earning men (% wise)

We ve a maternity service which is literally dangerous for women to use, no MH provision, a childcare system that is the most expensive in Europe (if you can even get it)
Go on about men in womens prisons by all means, meanwhile allow more Wayne Cousin types in the police force... thats actually been said today by the inquiry chairwoman.

But instead of women (on here) demanding change, its all about fucking toilets.

I suggested that if you were going to give voting intention as 'evidence' that no longstanding Labour supporters are being put off voting for them because of their stance on 'gender issues' then you should also take into account the reduction in the number of people who are confident they will vote at all. Otherwise you are just assuming that the longstanding Labour voters will just switch parties, which isn't me experience at all. Try and keep up.

There is no polling evidence women are put off voting for Labour, the reverse.
Labour, to win, need to attract far more women, they are doing so.

Do you think, with all the publicity around Women's rights/Trans these women are thick?

Saying "Try and keep up" however does make someone look thick, as it detracts from their argument.

I think the upcoming Labour government is going to be pretty terrible, but I'll still be mighty relieved to see the Tories booted out. I think it's possible Labour will make it easier to change your legal gender (though my preference would be for no one to have a legal sex or gender. Totally unnecessary) as well as banning conversion therapy, protecting the provision of gender affirming care, and ensuring an inclusive environment in schools, workplaces, public institutions and public spaces. I also think they may bring in hate crime legislation, which I'd welcome.

I also think it's possible they may fail to do some or all of these things. We'll see. Regardless, I think the gains your movement have made in the UK will stop accumulating and hopefully start to be lost once you know longer have right wing extremists in power doing your bidding.

Edited to add: when I say terrible, I mainly mean on migrants' rights, reversing austerity and environmental legislation. They will lack courage and pander to the right. And if they are shit on trans rights, it will be for the same reasons. But then Blair's government were very timid on gay rights, but that didn't stop the march of progress towards legal equality.

Not really irrelevant. My post was specifically about how some long time Labour voting women feel unable to vote for the party, and how some posters seem unable to understand that. Your evidence this was untrue (presumably that's what it was) was polling data which doesn't actually show that at all. It can be true both that large numbers of the voting population will vote Labour and that large numbers of previously loyal Labour voters won't vote at all. A you say, even at the height of Labour disarray more people said they were likely to vote. It's not a massive leap to suggest that if fewer people say they are certain to vote, then more people feel politically homeless.

In addition, lots of women are perfectly capable of holding more than one thought in their head. It's possible to campaign for better maternity services, while also fighting for the right for female patients to have a right to same-sex care or single-sex wards. Not sure why you've seemingly dismissed the safety of some of the most vulnerable women in our society - female inmates - though.

How about 'try and read what I wrote, rather than what you imagined I wrote'

The red wallers switched from Labour to Tory motivated by racism. Voters abandoning your party doesn't always mean you are in the wrong.

This picture of the Righteous Future where BadSpeak Is Strangled and WrongThinkers Are Crushed Into Dust really is simply exquisite.

And I quite agree with all the Right Side Of History posts. There really are only 6 nonbelievers in genderism (plus sockpuppets), and they are all far right religious Nazi-adjacent Tory voters in the first place, and they're all old hags who will be dead soon, therefore nothing at all will stand in the way of the Glorious Path.