Sexist and dangerous Samaritans ad

[Meadowbird]

https://twitter.com/samaritans/status/1760599123923722266

A really bizarre ad - encouraging lone women to approach disturbed men on deserted train station platforms and ask them out for a coffee. What could possibly go wrong? They also will become sexier if they do apparently.

Because the third 'actor' isn't just a 'staff member' he is a male staff member, and therfore not required to be a support human for other males of the species.

I’m in two minds on this. I have a family member with MH problems and have read a bit about suicide prevention. It does seem that preventing people from taking the final step (physical barriers, helplines or being approached) makes a big difference, particularly in male suicides. The Guardian ‘Long Read’ article on suicide was a sea-change for me. There is a ‘spot’ near me (one, possibly two, suicides since the late nineties) and I have engaged with the council about trying to get improvements there.

But I think they should have shown her speaking to a member of staff or a man doing the approach.

I watched this a couple of times before I could make up my mind about which way I felt. Ultimately, I agreed that, yes, it is a bad ad. The last line, about going for coffee is what really destroys it. It absolutely isn't appropriate, either for the woman's safety or even for the man's wellbeing. It sucks them both into a boundary-destroying situation that might have all sorts of false expectations and pressures.

If it had ended with something more sensible and appropriate (like "Are you ok? Can I get someone for you?) it would still have been tin-eared (especially the more beautiful, chilled out version of the woman being the one that advocated the approach. That is horribly pressuring. You are a frump if you don't go out of your way to help people.

There was a poster recently telling of her experience of being a young, female volunteer with them, I was quite shocked. Not my story to tell though. Samaritans do seem to think women are the emotional support animal for men.

Here is the Guardian article:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/01/zero-suicide-the-bold-new-fight-to-eradicate-suicide

I agree OP - this is horrendous and the very last thing women should be encouraged to do. I would give him a wide berth - a random man's problems are not for women to solve.

What was the thread title please?

That sums it up perfectly!
Given that men are three times more likely to take their own lives than women (latest UK stats) wouldn't the time, effort and money be better spent on campaigns encouraging men to look after themselves and each other?
The focus of this ad seems to be lecturing women on how to be the 'right kind of woman', instead of what's going on with the potentially suicidal man on the platform.

Interesting. They have thousands of trained staff and want to encourage the public to engage in small talk too - but they're focusing only on the intended subjects of their campaign, the suicidal men.

They haven't thought about all the other oddly-behaved men. Or about those members of the public. No risk assessment for what they're actually suggesting people do.

I'm all for small talk and recognise its value in diffusing potentially tense or dreary situations - like dealing with delayed public transport. As well as in reassuring or calming tense, worried or annoying people. I've experienced it being used effectively on public transport.

But I'd only ever engage in it in a group situation with a ready-made audience. One because the communication is always partly to the surrounding group 'I've clocked this, I think there's something wrong here, here's me trying to diffuse it'. And because safety in numbers and witnesses if something goes wrong. Obviously.

Whereas approaching lone, oddly behaved men on a quiet platform, with a line that many men will interpret as a come on? (Especially when you're a young woman) Stupid, high risk behaviour.

I also think Samaritans need to take into account the MH implications of intervening. If she ignores the ad's advice and does nothing, and then he harms himself, she will be dealing with having witnessed/later heard about a suicide AND with guilt, as the ad implies she could have saved him (maybe, maybe not). If she intervenes and he then harms himself, ditto.

Support human to suicidal man is a tough role.

Is there another ad where a man approaches the potentially suicidal guy?

I would hope there is, given how valuable it would be to show men it’s ok to reach out to support one another.

Im sure a bloke could ask about coffee.

Women have the message drilled into us all our lives about helping others, it would be a good campaign to show men they can be good Samaritans too.

It does look a bit like she's trying to pick him up.

OK I have seen that advice (not that anyone did a damn thing on a train recently when I was getting verbally abused by a gang of lads) but this feels different as it's not trying to break up violence it's trying to engage one on one with someone vulnerable.

Where do you go with it if the man just politely says no I don't know where to get a coffee and walks off? At some point you would have to be more direct if you genuinely thought he was suicidal.

Also, I think that the Samaritans is pushing the wrong message about mental health. The ridiculous illusion that 'just talking to someone' is a positive step in every situation. This is a horribly pervasive narrative at the moment.

Sure, it is a good thing that the Samaritan's helpline are there for people who do need to talk to a stranger. But unsolicited well-intentioned chat is no more a solution for mental health problems than it is for backache or heart disease.
Any number of people in the situation that man appears to be in would simply feel harassed and stressed by the woman's approach. And even if they didn't, even if they welcomed it, where is is supposed to go from there? She isn't going to become his friend, and if she helps him to get attention from the authorities the very likely outcome is that he will get assessed, fobbed off, and put on a waiting list for an NHS response which, when it eventually happens, is soul-destroyingly, bureaucratic, fractured, discontinuous, etc.

Actually one thing that the ad is accidentally honest about is that when the woman approaches him, she is doing it to feel better about herself, to feel like the chilled wild-child version of herself, not the uptight frump. Not fair to use a distressed person in that way.

And the assumption that someone behaving slightly oddly is suicidal. What if they are just odd? (Which must be the case in the majority of times). What if they don’t like being approached by strangers? Where is the advice and support on how to cope with the varied responses once the woman has ‘been kind’ and asked the disturbed man about coffee?

It's just some bloke with a hangover.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5008197-to-think-wtf-adult-diaper-fetish?page=2

Yes, there’s a lot to dislike about those trite SM posts: ‘My door’s always open and my kettle’s always on…’

MH issues generally go way beyond what a chat with an amateur can fix.

But at the same time, there is evidence that a last minute approach from someone can prevent a person from actually taking the final step.

are they perhaps trying to say don’t leave it to station staff? Because they’re under resourced etc.

station staff are usually fantastic IME, at stations that are staffed.

So what I want to see is their research identifying 'total number of lone men of target age behaving oddly around train stations' and breaking down their motivation, behaviour and potential risk to others.

What proportion are contemplating suicide?

What proportion have potential violent, obsessive or stalking tendencies?

What proportion have lower grade worrying or anti-social tendencies, or a poor understanding of social cues?

Then we have the basis for a risk assessment.

More women than men attempt suicide. It’s about time men started stepping up for their fellow men - there are certainly a lot of campaigns about it. You don’t really see the same campaigns targeted to women about seeking help it seems to be a given that women will talk about their problems.

anyway I agree that this ad is terrible - young women conditioned to do the “right” thing regardless of the risk to themselves shouldn’t be told to approach possibly disturbed men in this way.

The original post is why feminists get such a bad rap. You're looking for something that isn't there. It's about humanity. The end.

I’m thinking of this from the perspective of my young adult DD and would never suggest that she go up to a mentally disturbed (stronger, bigger) man on a train station platform to ask if he knows where to get a coffee.

Yes maybe it would help him. In the ad, it’s a slightly older, so less threatening, man that we’re supposed to feel sorry/worried on his behalf.

But there’s just as good chance that a man would think it was a pick up line. We know many men don’t accept a woman’s clear ‘no’ as a no in the first place. Let alone in this ambiguous situation.

Worse, what if, in his disturbed state, he pushes her on to the tracks?

This ad is glaringly tone deaf to the reality of VAWG that occurs on a daily basis. Plus, I am sick to death of the harmful message that woman and girls are the ones to resolve men’s poor mental health.

Factually incorrect. Almost 2/3rd's of suicides are men.

This ^^ is an important point.

So far my DD has not once noticed a suicidal looking man on a train platform but she has been endlessly approached by weird or aggressive ones on almost every journey.