Trans women feeding chemical ridden milk to babies - approved by NHS

[Heylo]

Are people aware of this?
This has gone too far. Throwing women and children under a bus is one thing. Now babies.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13095965/Row-hospitals-say-hormone-filled-milk-trans-women-born-male-just-good-baby-real-thing.html?ito=native_share_article-top

@ButterflyHatched

The reason a doctor won't prescribe to @excitedforbaby9 is because there is a link to causing heart issues in small babies from domperidone.

Formula is so safe (even if it is not the great natural product that maternal breast milk is) and the downsides are so well known and the product so well tested that my GP told me very clearly that formula is likely to be best for my circumstances (similar, allergy baby that refused to feed when uncomfortable).

Transwomen milk is going to be more concentrated in domperidone and will also have other hormones in. There's no clarity on its nutrition or the immune protection side of things (which is the magic of breastmilk, the nutritional side is pretty well replicated in formula, albeit not naturally, as this is the bit that science can do very well at).

Women like me (and women on drugs that transfer through milk) accept that sometimes they cannot feed their babies with breastmilk even if they want to and that formula might be the best for their baby in the circumstances. It is an act of maternal love not to make it all about you. Unfortunately, there is a subset of the trans community who cannot cope with not being validated at every turn. It's creepy, and we see you.

Hmmm.
I always naively hope that there are some places supporters of this ideology won't go. But here we are again - having to explain that babies should not be caught up in a tiny minority of men's desires .
Vile.

What is interesting is that the male that did this for 6 weeks exclusively was taking 50 mg twice a day of Spironolactone and in that documentation for this study I could find that this was lowered. However, the study authors did mention a study of women taking 25 mg and THAT the canrenone component that was considered risky only being 0.2% and considered ‘safe’. So this male still seemed to be taking double and the level of Spironolactone in the milk had NOT be assessed as safe. There seems to be a hand waving away of this fact in the study.

This is from this study linked below.

”At the time of our first visit, she was taking spironolactone 50 mg po bid, estradiol 2 mg po bid, and micronized progesterone 100 mg po bid. “

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779241

The study they quoted the 0.2% from says:

“The major metabolite of spironolactone, canrenone, was measured in the serum and milk of a 17-day postpartum woman who was taking 25 mg of spironolactone four times daily. Milk canrenone levels 2 hours after the dose were 104 mcg/L, and 47 mcg/L at 14.5 hours after the dose. The authors estimated that the nursing infant would receive about 0.2% of the mother's total daily dosage in the form of canrenone.1] Active sulfur-containing metabolites were not measured.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK501101/

I have now found this to be considered a ‘no’ effect on the infant written up.

https://www.drugs.com/breastfeeding/spironolactone.html#

It is notable (I might have missed it though) that I was unable to find the sex of the male fed infant. Because spironolactone has been noted for causing development issue for male sex organs on male foetuses in pregnancy.

This article is relevant to the first link.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2161151-transgender-woman-is-first-to-be-able-to-breastfeed-her-baby/?utm_source=rakuten&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=2116208:Skimlinks.com&utm_content=10&ranMID=47192&ranEAID=TnL5HPStwNw&ranSiteID=TnL5HPStwNw-uOWyW0a0EHFcOxL5MmCf5Q&utm_source=rakuten&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=2116208:Skimlinks.com&utm_content=10&ranMID=47192&ranEAID=TnL5HPStwNw&ranSiteID=TnL5HPStwNw-eFdm05QNJngWSRNMPW32yA#ixzz6f2Pil0Ik

“However, the woman’s breastmilk has not been assessed yet, so we don’t know if it has the same mix of components as in milk from new gestational mothers. This means the practice cannot yet be recommended, says Madeline Deutsch at the University of California, San Francisco. She says she can see the potential benefits of breastfeeding, but that the long-term impact of this milk on the baby – including on subtle measures like IQ – is unknown.”

“Deutsch herself is a transgender woman with a six-month-old baby who is currently being breastfed by Deutsch’s wife, who was the gestational mother. “I am very sad not to be able to breastfeed her and at the same time I did not consider doing this for the above reasons,” she says.”

I believe Dr Deutsch is a director of clinical services at the Center of Excellence for Transgender Health at the University of California San Francisco.

But fuck. What would Dr Deutsch know, eh?

You know, I don't get the whole "chest-feeding" term at ALL.

Presumably trans women spend a lot of money to get the "body parts" they covet, we are to call their new parts "neo vaginas" and "breasts", so WHY, when it comes to feeding an infant, do we suddenly have to call it "chest feeding?".

Is it to satisfy the tiny percentage of women who are trying to deny their biology and the fact that they just squeezed a baby out of their vagina in an act of womanly reproduction? Surely THAT would be more triggering?

It's absolute horse shit.

You completely fucking misunderstand exciteds post. AS well as the reality of the situation here.

The drug has been banned in countries for being potentially harmful to infants!!!!

Yet, you are here advocating usage of it to allow a MALE person to do something they are not equipped to do without that kind of intervention.

Do you see it yet? I think everyone on this post sees that you have no fucking clue what you are here attempting to shame feminists about discussing..... almost like... male fucking entitlement.

https://www.them.us/story/trans-women-breastfeed

This is an illuminating read and shows insight into the motivations for these male people who seek to do this.

And for removal of any doubt. These are self published anecdotes that these male people seem rather proud to publish.

I was about to say this. I think it’s madness to imagine a man can feed a baby and I’d be worried about the baby getting the right nutrition, but to be fair the drug itself is widely used.

How about the "psychological" impact on the child when they grow up and find out they have been forced to ingest untested secretions from a MALE?

Or does nobody give a shit about THAT either?

It sounds disgusting I am mortified. This madness needs to stop.

and it is banned in some countries too. It is not without issues to be fully explored over time. And there is also a difference between a 'few weeks' and 'months'. And also a difference between the drug in a female body vs how it acts in a male body.

It is not just about the drug by itself.

Anyone get the feeling that some people are beavering away behind the scenes to get this thread taken down?

Questions that cannot be answered are never desirable when it comes to safeguarding.

In a nutshell.

A houseful of people can feed a baby, with a bottle, using the mother's expressed milk, from her breast. No one feeds from the 'chest', it is a breast. That's requiring people to dress up reality in a few fig leaves to accommodate someone with a major emotional challenge with reality being stated. No. Not when it comes to babies.

There is no reason to put a baby to a male breast but that the baby is being used for an experience by the male person involved. Who may or may not have AGP and be gaining a sexual pleasure from this.

Using children in this way is revolting and deviant. It is not acceptable. Anyone trying to excuse this has really, really lost their way. Not everything and everyone on the planet is there as an experience theme park for male people who have chosen TQ+ identities and there are boundaries to acceptability.

That mans comment was something like 'it was like an electric charge'. And added to the more exciting thing... commented to ask how women dealt with it.

The motivation of these male people to have infants attach to their nipples needs to understood.

AS with the male entitlement that comes with not understanding the reality of the mother's experience. Of having their bodies ripped apart to deliver that infant, and then dealing with the constant issues around breastfeeding. The mastitis, the cracked and bleeding nipples, the exploding breasts, the milk that won't come in.

But no... apparently mothers live in this fantasy where our babies are delivering us the biggest sexual charge ever!

And male people are here and on other media demanding that feminists accept this as healthy in any way? Fuck that.

Speaking of infants being 'props'.

Does anyone remember that South American male photographer who used an infant as a prop for their 'queer' photoshoot? You know, the one where the infant was attached to male nipple of a male with oestrogen derived breasts? Because that was apparently a progressive photoshoot......

Shall we just cut to the chase and ask how much and to what extent it is ok to utilise a child or a woman for the psychological benefit of a male person from a particular social group?

Ooh and why the male person is the one with such primacy and power over the other groups, whose needs justify this harm, and how this fits with a supposed belief that the male is something other than male?

First they came for women then they came for our young adults, then, our pre-teens, then our primary aged children, then of course, our toddlers…..now it’s our babies. ‘Sick in the mind’ men have taken it all. Tell me, who is really the most vulnerable and marginalised in society?

I'll start by saying I don't agree with the term "human milk" and think it's outrageous that some TW are so desperate to try to breastfeed their children when that's not in any babies best interests. So what I'm about to wrote is nothing to do with my views on breastfeeding trans women overall. I'm deeply sceptical about this story though.

This linked article is very overexaggerated in implying there are lots of trans women lactating and makes it sound as if the NHS is promoting this and using the breast milk. It talks a lot about lactation and TW then says "Meanwhile, the Trust has refused to reveal how many births in its hospitals have been to trans men, acknowledging only that it is a 'very small number'." In the middle of an article about lactating TW, its confusing and reads as if there are any unknown number of trans people feeding babies artificially stimulated milk. However if you read to the end the article acknowledges:
"The result [TW artificially stimulated lactation] produces very little milk. There is 'barely enough for a single feed' per day, the same expert told The Mail on Sunday."

It's impossible to find the actual letter, which is suspicious. But even from the article it appears the letter says induced lactation in trans women produces milk that's safe for babies, then says human milk "is ideal for babies". Describing breast milk as "ideal for babies" is not controversial, its standard NHS practice. So the author appears to have conflated two statements and linked them to make it sound different to what (I assume) the original letter actually said.

Changing the definition of breast milk to "human milk" is more likely to be the request of trans men than trans women. That's a whole other issue around dehumanising language but the article just skates over that as they don't want to discuss trans men (apart from to imply lots of TW are giving birth).

And (again) the original source of this story is the right wing think tank "Policy Exchange" which masquerades as a "non-partisan educational charity" despite being set up by conservative MPs and having close links to the Conservative government.

https://bylinetimes.com/2023/02/13/government-by-think-tank-the-return-of-policy-exchange/

If someone can point me at the actual letter I'd be grateful but as it stands it looks like a manufactured story that the right wing press have grabbed and run with to sensationalise.

Scum. I struggled to bf and was treated like a useless piece of shit by midwives and health visitors. They can fuck off with this child abusing charter

Indeed. This is from your link above

My body will never allow me to conceive and bear a child, and I've always wanted to at least be able to nurse one. That was the main motivation for this. The secondary motivation was that I wanted to bring my breasts to full maturity.

...because it requires that extra bit of development that prepares you for breastfeeding in order to finish the development of your breasts.

The lactation thing for me just affirmed my womanhood, I think that was the most important part.

I think it strongly reinforced my sense of womanhood. I had some great inner satisfaction in knowing that I could do what a cisgender woman could. It was very important to me, and I’m proud and happy that I did that.

It was just super, super neat.

With a fairly long session, I could produce about an ounce. It was kind of funny because my spouse has really struggled with my breasts growing

Hiding in plain sight.

Yeah this is just pure fetshisation of the maternal experience.
I'm pretty sure that person didn't have the full on bowling ball/pain/cabbage leaves experience that lots of women have

These stories cannot be amplified enough Datun.

Maybe we should pull each one out and post them so people cannot miss them.

@AdamRyan Maybe take up your concerns with the hospital ? When asked by the Telegraph to comment they responded:

University Hospitals Sussex NHS Foundation Trust said: “We stand by the facts of the letter and the cited evidence supporting them.”

We're long past trying to discredit sources by wailing about right wing tropes. Well - most adults are.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/18/trans-womens-milk-as-good-as-breast-milk-says-nhs-trust/

Thanks for your reply.
unfortunately due to my babies allergies she would have to have amino acid formula which she absolutely will not take under any circumstance, on the one time we actually got some in her she was heaving and being sick. It tastes vile. I’ve cut everything from my diet to help, which has worked. Unfortunately my supply just can’t keep up despite doing everything (with help from specialists too). I’m trying so hard :(