Does anyone actually fully support trans people in women's changing rooms and loos?

[bottomsup12]

Just curious really? I see a lot of aggressive stances (Owen Jones eg) pro this on twitter etc. I don't get it.
The only reason I can think of is that it's never actually happened to them and they imagine it will be fine but when it actually happens a few times they might start seeing sense?

For the men who are aggressively pro it I wonder how they would feel is women just started flooding into their changing rooms and bathrooms ?

Lol, I'm a guy and insecure in front of my wife when naked. You really think I'd want a strange woman within viewing distance of my stuff?!

Single sex 100%!

Perfectly lovely people would understand that the presence of a male in the female toilets would make women uncomfortable, and so they’d stick to the loos for their own sex.

Just "no" is enough.

It should be, there should be no need to justify it, no need to negotiate or explain why. However, the concept of consent seems very flimsy when it is women doing the non consenting, why is that? Women's NO isn't as important as men's wishes? Surely not.

Just ONE woman saying NO should be the end of it, no discussion, no yeah but, ifs, or maybes.

No men should be in women’s single-sex spaces

Years ago, I was in a busy ladies’ loo when a man came in. The women kicked him out. It would be much harder to do that now.

So, I object to is the attempt to change social convention to let (only certain) men into women’s spaces. If that is established, we all know what sort of men are likely to take advantage. Unlike mixed-sex spaces, there wouldn’t even be any of the decent men around if help were needed.

No man or boy no matter their gender presentation should make women and girls uncomfortable by being in women's changing rooms or toilets. Even if they are not predatory they have already decided that they don't give a shit about anyones boundaries. This excludes some women and in schools we're already having situations where girls won't drink to avoid using the toilets or school refuse on their periods.

And it's not just girls who are uncomfortable either. My son felt really uncomfortable when a trans boy (teen) walked past him using the urinal to get to the cubicles.

Which is great for a lot , though not all,women , but doesn’t address the issue for the many women who for personal, social, cultural or religious reasons would find this arrangement impossible , so would therefore be excluded from an activity. And while I personally don’t share those reasons I am happy to respect them when held by other women.

This. I'm trying to think of all the people I would cheerfully have murdered in my time and it's quite a long list.

The decent men in my life wouldn't dream of entering women's spaces — loos, changing rooms, whatever — unless requested by a woman or women who needed assistance. They'd also be very worried if they found women showering and changing in their spaces in case they were accused of inappropriate behaviour. The kind of men who want to get into women's single-sex spaces don't seem to fear being accused of inappropriate behaviour. They feel perfectly entitled. Odd, isn't it?

Men don’t care about women in men’s loos - there are plenty of women who will skip into the men’s loos if the women’s queue is too long - it happens all the time in clubs and music and sports venues. They don’t care and therefore they can’t imagine why women would care if the situation is reversed.

I don't think this is true of all men at all.

I think it's more likely that they don't want trans women in theirs.

Or just don't care as it doesn't affect them.

No. As mentioned by PP earlier I don’t want to keep having to drag out my 11 year old selfs SA story in a changing room to justify why men should not be in confined quarters with access to women and girls bodies.
@C1N1C I’m not one to usually bring a thread on FWR round to men’s perspectives but you are absolutely right, my husband would be really uncomfortable about his penis being exposed in front of young girls and women, whilst he peed. There are issues of safeguarding and dignity the other way round as well.

This is so often forgotten. That a penis is not needed to to sexually assault someone.

No.

I've never found the 'some men will trample women's boundaries anyway, so let's get rid of boundaries, some men will harm women anyway so let's get rid of safeguards' to be a particularly compelling argument.

Absolutely!

This needs to be stated loudly and clearly on everyone of these threads.

I'd like to know what happened to change men's opinion on mixed sex facilities for women. They went from being very against letting women step foot outside of the house other than to go to the local shops, being furious and suspecting our motives if we saw a male doctor because he might see us naked, to insisting we have to strip off in front of random strange men without protest.
I suspect they are hoping we'll voluntarily fuck off back indoors.

I don't want a bloke listening to me using the Loo . I just wouldn't feel comfortable . I would imagine there are men who feel the same way .

In France at the moment and a lot of the piste-side restaurants have unisex toilets with urinals, presumably as space is at a premium. Establishments in town have regular segregated toilets. It’s uncomfortable queuing for the cubicles with children while grown men happily whip it out in front of the urinal. But my French family would just call me a prudish Anglo-Saxon.

I don't. But once i went to a lido and went to change after that and a woman put a thong on and made sure went to the hairdryers shaking her naked boobs. I could see she is nice looking but my boobs were even nicer than hers, even though I am shorted and more curvaceous. I used the hairdryer next to her completely clothed. Not sure do a guy would this waving a penis next to me pretending is a woman, huh ?

my family would probably just call it decency and dignity.

Anyone born male remains male regardless of hormones and surgery. I do not want to share a female only space with any of those people. Ever.

Personally and honestly I don’t really care. If they’re not an attacker then they’re just going about their business and in a cubicle.

But the point is that you don't know if they're an attacker, or a voyeur or anything else undesirable.
If they're just going about their business in a cubicle then they can use the cubicles in the MEN'S toilets / changing rooms.

Having had the job of cleaning toilets in pubs, no I don't want mixed sex toilets.

Having been the victim of sexual abuse, no I don't want mixed sex toilets or changing rooms.

Having two shy male children who would feel uncomfortable sharing space with the other sex while changing or going to the loo no I don't want mixed sex toilets or facilities.

But if you say any of this you are shot down as a trans hating terf. 🙄😡 They are loud and bullying and rely on people being cowed and bullied into submission.

None of the men I know want this either. 🙄

No I don't, and I don't want unisex spaces either. Or worse, like Freight Island in Manchester, where men have men's toilets, but the ladies have to have "ladies and gender neutral" all in one. That just resulted in everyone using that bathroom, all the cubicles were open at the top and bottom, nothing to stop a man taking photos of women in there. The cleaner hated it as she said men just came in and left mess everywhere and she was sick of it. I complained to security and asked why women have to share their toilets with men but men don't have to share. It's a regular complain there but it falls on deaf ears. So desperate the company is to be hip and cool, they are putting women at risk every day.

People who declare 'it is just someone in the next cubicle' also keep forgetting that female people use the toilets for other reasons other than 'just peeing' and that it often involves loss of privacy and loss of cubicle protection.

The need for privacy in female toilets actually extend to the public areas of the room. And any female with a pram will know the need to jam a pram or stroller into a doorway and have the door wide open dealing with period issues. Maybe even flooding period issues. And I remember that diarrhoea that came with those first periods after pregnancy.

Or drying fronts from having washed out milk from exploding breasts, vomit, coffee, lunch.

Or taking an elderly woman to the toilet because there is no accessible toilet or it is full.

Or washing bloody hands.

From an early age my mum would have us use public toilets to get changed in when we were going somewhere after school due to time constraints. A mum dealing with three kids... well we didn't all fit in a cubicle so we were changed in the main area where there would only ever be women.

I have had friends miscarry in public toilets and needed assistance from other women.

Or any number of things that doesn't seem to cross people's minds unless they have had to actually deal with it. And no acknowledgement that those dealing with these issues feel uncomfortable enough without the inclusion of males into the loos (however they present).

Agreed. Totally & utterly.
Realistically there have been transwomen using our toilets etc for years. Only thing was that they were so desperate to come across as women that they would make damn sure no-one knew otherwise. So many these days are all about making women feel uncomfortable by waving their dicks around publicly and making it bloody obvious they're men. I don't have a problem with the first type because they're genuinely not a threat and go out of their way to not cause offence or discomfort. You wouldn't know they were there and if they thought they were a problem they'd leave immediately. But I have a huge issue with the rest. And it pisses me off further that the genuine ones (who no doubt are a tiny minority) are going to end up treated like crap because of the arseholes (as usual).
(Love the username by the way!)