Alice Roberts in The Times

[Igneococcus]

Mostly plugging her new book but the interviews bring up the trans issue:

"I am not trying to propel Roberts back to a 2019 skirmish in the trans wars in which she tweeted that “biology is, quite simply, messier and more wonderful than some people like to believe” and advised doubters to “ask a clownfish” — a clownfish being a fish that starts life as male but becomes female. It does, however, strike me that if human female and male brains are the same, how can it ever be said that a baby possessing male genitalia was born into the wrong body.
There is quite a pause.
“I think that’s a very difficult philosophical question. It’s very difficult to pin it down, isn’t it? And we’ve had decades of feminism where we’ve been trying to get away from women being reduced to their genitalia. My own feeling is that you approach everybody as an individual.”

No Alice, it really isn't difficult to pin down, and it's not about genitalia, it's about gametes.

On a side note, it seems if it weren't for Alice we'd still be clueless about the causative agent of plague:
"Her chapter on the Black Death of the 14th and 15th centuries reveals its genesis as the Yersinia pestis bacterium,"

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/31f84383-e923-42d5-8011-64d0dd7c1ff9?shareToken=2d6448182015ccd30701f4cb6c84de9f

Agree - it doesn't matter how messy or complicated it is. A species is also hard to define and there are edge cases where the usual norms don't exactly apply. But that still doesn't mean a fox is a chicken or a horse is a pine tree.

Biological reproduction comes in a wide range of forms and processes. But each thing still is what it is, and isn't something else just because it feels or announces it is. It's a completely false comparison - A male clownfish may become female because that's what its genetics allow it to do, but a male clownfish still isn't a female clownfish because it says it is, thinks it is or dresses up as a female clownfish. It only is when it biologically is. Which is the actual opposite of genderist beliefs.

There are only two types of gametes, but even if there were 150, this would still be true. Each individual would still only have the gamete-producing abilities it actually, biologically had and gender identity wouldn't come into it.

Ffs she's really masking a fool of herself here.

Also, her book is being slated

Who's the goth historian and what has Lucy Worsley done? (I'm dreading the answer; I like her),

Professor Janina Ramirez ?

(And I believe Professor Lucy Worsley ?)

Googled Janina Ramirez and yes, I guess she is the goth historian. I don't think I know her.

Not sure what the '(And I believe Professor Lucy Worsley ?)' bit means; are you saying I should have used her title?

I refer you to my previous post.

Genuinely, that's a shame. I'm still looking forward to reading at some point the trilogy she's done (Ancestors, Buried, and Crypt), they get good reviews.

Oh, I see, but actually no, I don't need to use someone's full title on a thread that they're highly unlikely to see (and probably robust enough to not get upset about SHOULD they see it).
I respect Lucy W immensely – I hope that isn't going to change when I hear whatever it is she's done to be mentioned along with Alice 'look at clownfish' Roberts – and I don't need to use her title to indicate that to other people.

Yes; we’ve recently watched some of her series on britains historical cities and enjoyed them.
The thing is, Roberts is as far as I can see very much a genuine feminist, eg her massive admiration for Emmeline Pankhurst when talking about her statue in Manchester. Just she seems to have this weird blind spot/factual error re sex which is baffling!
well, I hope as reality begins to assert itself she’ll find a way to excavate herself from this particular hole.

On an SM forum thread?
there are all sorts of people we discuss for whom we don’t use their earned titles. You don’t think posters who’ve got one should have them used do you?

I know it's an old thread, but it gives me an opportunity to ask whether "messy and complcated" means the same as "random and chaotic". Is it? If not, why should it stop you looking at the systems involved?

Just me then. Doing feminism wrong.

Again.

😀

Isn't this the new book "domination" which purports to be about the spread of Christianity? Many ppl have pointed out its similarity to dominion by Tom Holland which she doesn't include at all in her references but does talk about the need to refute certain widespread theories by historians. Attention was drawn to this on twitter by others and a bit of an embarrassing exchange between her & Tim Holland where she said she absolutely definitely didn't mean him/his book but she'd love to come on TRIH

I think your point would be entirely valid in a more formal context.

I'm a Dr, so I hope you will all refer to me as Dr Dirt .

From memory "Dominion" posited that our "western" secular views are a direct result of Christian influence that colours our ideas of "good" and "evil" in contrast to the age on antiquity where such concepts do not really apply.

I know. It's like saying a house is more than a staircase, because it has rooms, and a garden too and the staircase doesnt dictate how big the kitchen is. Well yes. But without the staircase it wouldn't be a house at all, it would be a bungalow.

Americans call bungalows "flat houses" ...

If anyone has time, this is interesting

How very Germanic of them.

@LittleBitofBread I'm also dreading the answer re. Lucy Worsley - I appreciate her gleefulness immensely - but having said that, she doesn't strike me as particularly brave.

This reminds me of this meme and the takedown.

American here who has never heard the term 'flat house' but we use bungalow all the time.

If a man were strangling me with his bare hands (as most men could) he'd certainly be reducing me to my airway.

Women can be reduced into nothing by their biology. See also: death in childbirth, also greater risk to women of head trauma and whiplash. Denying this fact only increases the risk of it happening. Roberts is a forgettable grifter. Deep down, she knows this.

She's a grifting idiot. I hate to say this about another woman because I've been on the wrong end of the 'you only got that promotion because the boss fancies you' shit, and it still angers and upsets me 20 years later, ...but if she's going to drivel on about clownfish, I'm afraid I really have to wonder if it was genuinely her academic merit that got her onto TV or the fact that she was young and pretty. Because her brain is clearly not her best feature.

I used to subscribe to the UK Humanists but some of them are as extreme as Fundamentalist Theists. I can’t be Good Without God when some humanists have these views. Now I’m just a plain old Atheist who eye rolls religion. Some bonkers Humanists want to ban religion altogether. Some humanists have turned The Flying Spaghetti Monster into an actual deity. Some humanists, like Alice, are in the TWAW camp, completely ignoring the humanist idea that science can explain the universe. Alice can’t be a scientist and ignore her scientific training, but she pretends that she can to “be kind”. You can’t be both, Alice!