What would you do? Re school staff member and colleague calling himself 'miss'

[Icantpeopleanymore]

So it's a delicate situation...I work with a man who is lovely, very young, known him as both a student and now a colleague, he's not a teacher but has occasional contact with kids, I barely need to refer to him by 'Mr ...' but would have to in front of students, he's 'transitioning', on hormones, up until now on staff nights out etc he would wear dresses etc but I would just ignore it (he has a following of woke girls who are more than ready to compliment him on his outfits and I've just ignored it until now) he did once make reference to HRT when I was having a hot flush and compared it to his hormones, it was in a social gathering and not the right place so I just ignored it and changed the subject. However, he's now changed his email to Miss.. surname and I just cannot bring myself to do it. To me, it's actually teaching our students to lie and it's also plainly obvious he's a man, albeit a slightly built long haired one who wears trousers and jumpers to work so fairly gender neutral clothing too.

It just leaves a horrible taste in my mouth and it goes against everything I believe but I also don't want to hurt his feelings or be rude, he's a decent human being, but it's just not on at the same time. It'll only come up once or twice a term at most but others I know who also think it's a load of bollocks and deal with him daily are just going along with it, because he's a nice person and a friend, we've all known him years. They just don't want to be rude. I appreciate he's being brave to make this change of name but he's just so misguided...

It makes me so angry he's put us in this position but I cannot call him miss, it's just ridiculous! Plus I can imagine our students going...who?! As he's clearly a bloody man! Oh and is a scientist 🤦

How do you deal with it when it's at work, you want to be kind and not appear rude, but can't just use a first name? (It's a gender neutral first name thank god, just a shortening of a man's name that could be a woman's) but I can't do that in front of students...

I think, oddly, if he were a teacher, that this might happen quicker and be more of an issue. It would force their hand to come up with something. I do think they will ignore it because they will say that it doesn't impact the students directly as they don't have to speak to him or refer to him as miss as much as they would if teaching staff were involved. He doesn't have any contact with parents really. It's really only going to come up for me once or twice a term I guess, if at all.
I've had to agree to disagree with my partner, we work together and he's much more involved with him than I am. He feels the same as me, but they are much closer and he's had to ask him, what do you want to be called, and got the answer miss. He's much happier to do it than I am, he doesn't feel comfortable doing it but also doesn't feel comfortable not doing it, as he likes him, he's a friend and he doesn't want to hurt his feelings.

Sounds like what you're saying is it's "transphobic" to be truthful. And as we all know that being a dishonest liar is wrong, this implies that "transphobia" must be good and honest and wholesome.

Sounds alright to me.

That shouldn't be allowed because he would be using his position as teacher to compel children to accept his ideology. He"s a man and should be addressed as such.

In a work setting, if you don’t respect the persons name and pronouns, and you do it persistently and intentionally you’ll eventually lose your job. It’s as simple as that. The employer would be at risk of discrimination claims if they didn’t address the behaviour. Even if you find it difficult, you’ll need to get over it if you want to stay employed.

This is lie. Compelled speech is an abuse of your human rights. If you insist on calling him 'he' then I think you will have problems but if you avoid all pronouns and use their name I can't see how they can touch you. You do not need to use their pronouns.

No, it is not 'as simple as that'. Stonewall law is not the actual law. This workplace is full of children. Children take precedence. Children should not be lied to, or forced to lie, because it's what an adult wants. The transperson is the one who will 'need to get over it', his wants do not and should not trump children's rights - see the previously quoted KCSIE.

Here I'd switch to referring to them by job title and surname. So assuming they're a teaching assistant, then they'd become "TA Jones", or "Assistant Jones". I'd be directing the students to "Form B's Assistant Jones" or similar.

It's clunky, but factual and politely distant. And it's defensible if they or others kick off with accusations of transphobia. You're not being insulting or misgendering, but neither are you being forced to lie against your own lawfully held beliefs.

Seems like an area of employment law crying out for clarification … IANAL but I guess this could go either way in court?

I’m also assuming this person doesn’t have a GRC, so is legally a man. I would get written instructions from your superiors, asking them directly what will happen in a range of hypothetical scenarios, but the problem is your superiors will probably consult somebody else who might not understand the conflict of rights and safeguarding issue.

And yes, it sounds as if this person has been pushing boundaries, little by little, and is strategically using bonds of friendship to get what he wants. Personally, I’ve become quite wary of such manipulation, it is a bit of a red flag to me. It’s also just distracting in the work place.

Is he aware of your views? Is he likely to notice and then complain if you don't use Miss in front of him? If he starts wearing a dress, the kids will soon notice even if they don't see much of him.

Safeguarding comes before validating a teacher's fantasy. If staff refer to a male as a female, you are gaslighting children and putting them at increased risk of abuse. It also causes immense distress to children of transitioners (CoTs) in the school, and other survivors of male abuse. Cots wrote about what they need in school here https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/02/27/how-to-help-children-of-transitioners/
but they got a lot of abuse for speaking up, so most are silent in school. https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/09/25/not-shutting-up/

Bullying of children who recognise reality increases when adults make counterfactual statements.https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/girl-18-driven-out-of-school-for-questioning-transgender-ideology/
The Amy/ Andrew Miller abuse case is another case in point- the little girl got into her abuser's car as she had been taught 'transwomen are women' so are as safe as women- as you are under pressure to do here, so it's a direct safeguarding risk. https://reduxx.info/scotland-transgender-butcher-pleads-guilty-to-abducting-and-sexually-abusing-schoolgirl/

But to be honest Op, I understand why you might lie to the pupils - you have to keep your job to feed your children. Is there any safeguarding/ welfare officer lead you could approach to raise concerns?

If the pupils call him 'Teacher'and you introduce him as you suggest, so no one lies, no one's speech/belief is coerced, no one can complaint about misgendering/ correct sexing - ie no'one's rights are impacted- that would seem to be a middle ground..

This is a textbook example of how a minority can impose their view on a majority even without saying a word - it exploits kindness over truth, "forces" an honest person to lie and, in turn, gradually imposes that lie on children.

I used to work in a school. In your situation I absolutely would not call this man 'Miss' which in most schools signifies 'female teacher/TA'. Doing otherwise would feel like a lie, and I wouldn't want to work in an environment where my speech was compelled. I'd avoid calling him 'Mr' not because it's inaccurate but out of respect for his belief and his comfort. But that's as far as it would go. If first names aren't an option then awkward phrasing would be the way forward for me, unfortunately.

I'm an atheist. One of my colleagues was a Creationist. I didn't tell her that I thought her belief was nonsense or start arguments about evolution with her. I also didn't teach the children that God made the world in 6 days, just because she believed it. Likewise when I taught about Islam I was very respectful of Muslim beliefs but I didn't say 'peace be upon him' every time I mentioned Muhammad or other prophets, because I'm not a believer myself.

The difference being, of course, that no religious person has ever expected or even asked me to say words which indicate I share their beliefs. The transactivists try to demand it. But that would be my line. I wouldn't call him Miss and I wouldn't tell the children he was a woman.

And if you do use wrong sex pronouns you're emotionally abusing the children in the class according to statutory safeguarding guidance that every member of staff HAS to be trained in each year.

If you have to break something do you want it to be some workplace policy based on Stonewall fake law or the statutory safeguarding laws protecting children from abuse?

I know which I'd choose. Of course, not using compelled pronouns is not against the law - that's just a fantasy law, which doesn't exist. Indeed, most recent court cases very much are supporting women's rights to speak biological truth. Just because people say something's 'the law' doesn't mean it is. And people who are unwilling to face reality about biological sex are perhaps not the best people to know the reality of the law either.

You could refer to him by only his surname and pretend you’re just really old-skool.

Or refer to him by his entire name, as if you were Russian. (Although, they use the given name and patronymic, which is sexed, so this wouldn't work at all well if you were actually Russian.)

Just say you’ve decided to adopt the pronoun ‘Judy’ for everyone, lol.

I quite like the idea of using the job title 'TA name' etc. That's clever. It also doesn't break the rules of English, confusing all the poor children struggling to learn English.

I do have to ask, though: why is this your problem? Unless and until you are given explicit instructions from management, I think you should be free to refer to him as you see fit. How else are you supposed to know?

Here we are, being sucked into a young man’s personal drama - ‘when do I use she/her? When I change my name/hairstyle/dress/ear rings? When, oh when?’ - when really there are so many more important problems in the world. But that’s the point, isn’t it, that everybody else becomes a participant.

Has SLT given a steer on this at all? Can you ask your manager for advice?

This is going to be a head fuck for the kids. Male teachers/TAs/any other roles in schools are Sir. Female teachers/TAs/any other roles are Miss. I went to a Catholic primary school. Every female teacher was Sister whether she was a nun or not and the two male teachers were Father. It took me a whole year at secondary school to learn to use Miss and Sir.

I see @Lemonlemonlemonapple has discovered the Judy thread.

For those who don't know, it concerns a man called Mac has decided his pronoun is Judy. Which is not, of course, a pronoun at all but a noun since 'noun' basically means 'name'. And so Mac has single handedly had a go at renaming parts of speech and people who have to deal with him might be compelled by law to go along with his ridiculousness. Can I single handedly decide that 'blue' is an adverb? Can I announce 'cake' is a verb? Why not?

I have no idea if Mac uses Judy as his possessive pronoun: 'show Mac to Judy room '. That's not going to get confusing is it?

Presumably @Lemonlemonlemonapple would be happy to go along with this mind-bending rubbish as s/he seems to think we must use people's chosen words at work.(Mac is in the US, BTW).

Presumably @Lemonlemonlemonapple would be happy to go along with this mind-bending rubbish

As long as I can have a lie down and a glass of wine at the end of each day to recover, I’m all for it. I wonder what pronouns Dali would choose?

I often tell my students that if I can't remember their names (I teach over 300 over a week!) That I'll call them all Betty. They seem fine with it so maybe that'll work 🤣

Seriously though, I've not been told to do it yet, I don't get emails from him and probably wouldn't email him so I can just pretend I don't know and avoid pronouns and miss/sir as much as possible.

I don't think SLT would have the balls to tell us we have to do it. You never know though.

Thanks for all the advice (and abuse from some, expected of course, it's fine) I'll think on it but at least I feel a bit better that I've got something to fall back on.

I’d definitely wait to be told to call him miss. Then you can have a conversation with whoever has dictated it. Under no circumstances ask him his preference. Then you’ll be stuck with having to go along with it.

It is good for the children to have a role model that shows them they don’t have to go along with, if they don’t want to.