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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What would you do? Re school staff member and colleague calling himself 'miss'

161 replies

Icantpeopleanymore · 04/02/2024 20:59

So it's a delicate situation...I work with a man who is lovely, very young, known him as both a student and now a colleague, he's not a teacher but has occasional contact with kids, I barely need to refer to him by 'Mr ...' but would have to in front of students, he's 'transitioning', on hormones, up until now on staff nights out etc he would wear dresses etc but I would just ignore it (he has a following of woke girls who are more than ready to compliment him on his outfits and I've just ignored it until now) he did once make reference to HRT when I was having a hot flush and compared it to his hormones, it was in a social gathering and not the right place so I just ignored it and changed the subject. However, he's now changed his email to Miss.. surname and I just cannot bring myself to do it. To me, it's actually teaching our students to lie and it's also plainly obvious he's a man, albeit a slightly built long haired one who wears trousers and jumpers to work so fairly gender neutral clothing too.

It just leaves a horrible taste in my mouth and it goes against everything I believe but I also don't want to hurt his feelings or be rude, he's a decent human being, but it's just not on at the same time. It'll only come up once or twice a term at most but others I know who also think it's a load of bollocks and deal with him daily are just going along with it, because he's a nice person and a friend, we've all known him years. They just don't want to be rude. I appreciate he's being brave to make this change of name but he's just so misguided...

It makes me so angry he's put us in this position but I cannot call him miss, it's just ridiculous! Plus I can imagine our students going...who?! As he's clearly a bloody man! Oh and is a scientist 🤦

How do you deal with it when it's at work, you want to be kind and not appear rude, but can't just use a first name? (It's a gender neutral first name thank god, just a shortening of a man's name that could be a woman's) but I can't do that in front of students...

OP posts:
eggbot · 04/02/2024 21:01

You're just going to have to call this person Miss. Or Ms. Or any chance they could be a doctor?

OhBuggerandArse · 04/02/2024 21:03

This is going to be unbelievably stressful for you and there will be no sensible or easy way through. It would depend on how much contact you have with him, but if it's a lot, in your position, I would look for a new job if at all possible.

Soontobe60 · 04/02/2024 21:06

Why can’t you use his first name? We call each other by our first names in my school. The children aren’t stupid, they know we have first names!

OhBeAFineGuyKissMe · 04/02/2024 21:09

Just try very hard to not refer to him by name at all. So if he is in the room 'please hand the retort stand over' and a hand wave in his direction. Refer to him directly rather than about him, making eye contact.

You don't say if he is a teacher or support staff. If another teacher I can go ages without saying thier name. Support staff who are in the room with you are trickier but you might be able to avoid it.

HipTightOnions · 04/02/2024 21:11

You're just going to have to call this person Miss. Or Ms.

Why? Why is the default assumption that we all have to go along with this?

In other workplaces you can just use first names, but that doesn't work when there are children present.

HipTightOnions · 04/02/2024 21:13

Just try very hard to not refer to him by name at all.

He will expect the children to call him "Miss" and will presumably "correct" them if they call him "Sir".

Ingenieur · 04/02/2024 21:14

Just use "my esteemed colleague".

PermanentTemporary · 04/02/2024 21:18

I'd never thought about the requirement for titles in school.

I'm not sure there is an answer except to grit your teeth and make your mind blank. In the end, if someone asks to be called something that is legal etc, what can you do? The fight is not with individuals.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 04/02/2024 21:19

Tough one OP! Is he expecting the children to call him miss? How much contact does he have with pupils?

AJPGreen · 04/02/2024 21:23

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caringcarer · 04/02/2024 21:24

I'd just not call a man Miss or Ms. I'd avoid calling him anything If I could. Smile across at him and ask him to pass you something. If you have to refer to him, to your class, I'd use my colleague. If he comments to you I'd just be honest and tell him as long as he has a Y chromosomes he's a male.

happydappy2 · 04/02/2024 21:26

It is never transphobic to refer to a man as a man. That is not hateful and it’s not illegal! Be polite & professional but you don’t have to lie

RowanMayfair · 04/02/2024 21:26

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No she fucking isn't

Icantpeopleanymore · 04/02/2024 21:30

Thanks, some ideas...
He's support staff. Which is something as doesn't have much to do with the kids...Not my department, but I do have contact with him, and yes, I would have to use a title. I'm thinking of a recent trip we did where he came along as supporting staff, I had to ask him to look after my group whilst I dealt with one student, so I had to say to this group of 14 year old, please follow Mr ......or Sir. This was a while ago. I used to have a lot more respect for him when he was clearly saying, I'm a man but I like dressing up, but now he's gone fully 'over' as it were.

If I said miss I think they'd look at me thinking who the bloody hell are you talking about, you're the only miss here!

And no, I'm not going to get a new job 🤣 that's ridiculous! I've been in this school 16 years, I'm a single parent so need the stability and I love it, not to mention no one employs late 40 something women in middle leadership positions anymore, I'm too expensive!
I guess I'll just have to hope it never comes up and just use please speak to the ... technician over there with a vague wave in his general direction...or just use his first name in every sentence rather than she if referring to him. We sometimes send kids up to him if they need resources for our projects, but he wouldn't be there then.

I will have to be so careful, it's ridiculous! I can't wait for him to be referred to as a woman in front of one of our autistic students, that's going to go well! I'm thinking of several of our teen boys who will quite literally blurt out 'but he's a dude!'

OP posts:
Icantpeopleanymore · 04/02/2024 21:31

I'm not scared of him 🤣🤣

OP posts:
TinderTime · 04/02/2024 21:33

Out of interest has he changed his first name or is it a unisex first name?

DontBuyANewMumCashmere · 04/02/2024 21:35

Practical thought - if it's a school trip etc could you split the cohort into groups?
"OK, you are in charge of Green group, Miss B you are Red group" etc?

Icantpeopleanymore · 04/02/2024 21:35

Sorry, that was to @AJPGreen ...

I would like to say to him, sorry, I respect that these are your wishes and that's up to you, but I feel you're going to confuse the students and also I feel very uncomfortable lying, so I reserve the right to refer to you as my colleague rather than your name. Still very awkward though! We all just say miss or sir if we need something from a colleague. I'm 46, I'm still missing to the kids, so I guess they're lying in a way too as I am very clearly well past being a miss 🤣 to be fair, they often also call me mum or sir by accident..

OP posts:
Icantpeopleanymore · 04/02/2024 21:37

@TinderTime it's his first name still, just shortened to be possibly male or female first name...more female than male though I guess. Always been known as it I think though, apart from when he was much younger.

OP posts:
PinkFrogss · 04/02/2024 21:38

I would just try to avoid saying it if you find it uncomfortable/difficult, try to refer to him directly instead of by name.

But I think if you really do have to say his name you’ll have to use “miss”.

If any of the students blurt our about him being a man or whatever then leave him to deal with it.

Icantpeopleanymore · 04/02/2024 21:39

@Theeyeballsinthesky I'm not sure to be honest, possibly quite a lot, not sure how it works in that department, he's involved with extra curricular activities though and then quite a lot. I can't see the students managing it very well but you never know. Older ones maybe but not KS3.

OP posts:
CaramelMac · 04/02/2024 21:42

I know what you mean about that sick feeling, it’s because it’s like when a bully makes you do something you don’t want to but you’re too scared not to.

I would just either not use his name or just ‘the technician’ and if you absolutely have to then use his first name and if anyone says anything just go with ‘oops, I must’ve misspoken, I’m so used to calling him Alex/Sam or whatever…’

eggbot · 04/02/2024 21:42

PinkFrogss · 04/02/2024 21:38

I would just try to avoid saying it if you find it uncomfortable/difficult, try to refer to him directly instead of by name.

But I think if you really do have to say his name you’ll have to use “miss”.

If any of the students blurt our about him being a man or whatever then leave him to deal with it.

I think this is the best approach

HipTightOnions · 04/02/2024 21:45

you’ll have to use “miss”

Why, though? Just because he wants you to? What message would that send to the kids?

If any of the students blurt our about him being a man or whatever then leave him to deal with it.

And if he "corrects" and even reprimands them, what then?

Nttttt · 04/02/2024 21:45

Icantpeopleanymore · 04/02/2024 21:35

Sorry, that was to @AJPGreen ...

I would like to say to him, sorry, I respect that these are your wishes and that's up to you, but I feel you're going to confuse the students and also I feel very uncomfortable lying, so I reserve the right to refer to you as my colleague rather than your name. Still very awkward though! We all just say miss or sir if we need something from a colleague. I'm 46, I'm still missing to the kids, so I guess they're lying in a way too as I am very clearly well past being a miss 🤣 to be fair, they often also call me mum or sir by accident..

“I respect that these are your wishes” but proceeds to ignore their wishes to be called miss.

Do any of you people ever think that YOU are the issue considering the rest of your workforce and the children are adhering to the best of their ability? It wouldn’t shock me if you end up sacked for transphobia, but if it realllllllyyyy upsets you that bad then just continue 👍🏼 Get rid of the transphobic teacher so staff and kids can feel safe to come out.

I can understand when people are critical and say they don’t want trans people in their spaces like toilets etc, it’s not my view but it makes the most sense. However not listening to someone when they say they’re trans/ accepting their pronouns is just straight up transphobic.