What would you do? Re school staff member and colleague calling himself 'miss'

[Icantpeopleanymore]

So it's a delicate situation...I work with a man who is lovely, very young, known him as both a student and now a colleague, he's not a teacher but has occasional contact with kids, I barely need to refer to him by 'Mr ...' but would have to in front of students, he's 'transitioning', on hormones, up until now on staff nights out etc he would wear dresses etc but I would just ignore it (he has a following of woke girls who are more than ready to compliment him on his outfits and I've just ignored it until now) he did once make reference to HRT when I was having a hot flush and compared it to his hormones, it was in a social gathering and not the right place so I just ignored it and changed the subject. However, he's now changed his email to Miss.. surname and I just cannot bring myself to do it. To me, it's actually teaching our students to lie and it's also plainly obvious he's a man, albeit a slightly built long haired one who wears trousers and jumpers to work so fairly gender neutral clothing too.

It just leaves a horrible taste in my mouth and it goes against everything I believe but I also don't want to hurt his feelings or be rude, he's a decent human being, but it's just not on at the same time. It'll only come up once or twice a term at most but others I know who also think it's a load of bollocks and deal with him daily are just going along with it, because he's a nice person and a friend, we've all known him years. They just don't want to be rude. I appreciate he's being brave to make this change of name but he's just so misguided...

It makes me so angry he's put us in this position but I cannot call him miss, it's just ridiculous! Plus I can imagine our students going...who?! As he's clearly a bloody man! Oh and is a scientist 🤦

How do you deal with it when it's at work, you want to be kind and not appear rude, but can't just use a first name? (It's a gender neutral first name thank god, just a shortening of a man's name that could be a woman's) but I can't do that in front of students...

You don't believe in God and think the premise of religion is insane, but you go along with it to support your friends. You're comparing this with the OPs situation, and by suggesting it is the same thing, you're really just supporting what most people here are saying. That people go along with this bizarre dystopian nonsense to keep the peace and be a 'be kind' kinda person, not because it's true. Essentially, we're all saying what you're thinking.

I honestly don't know. They know I'm a good teacher, they know my views and to be honest the head is just bemused by it all and is toeing the line he has to. I think I'd get a talking to at worst. But then I'm quite willing to give my reasons.

I can't imagine he would complain if someone did call him sir by accident, but it would upset him, I wouldn't want that either! But I just can't call him miss, I can't.

If you have to refer to him by name E.g when saying to a class “Mr Smith will watch over you while I see to Billy”, could you say E.g. “our lovely tech assistant will be watching over you while I see to Billy”

I'd suggest that as your relationship with him is via the workplace, you need to be guided by what is decided by your managers. That's what keeps everyone professionally safe.
Individuals shouldn't be at the centre of these debates. I'm not criticising your thoughts OP - it's a good discussion to have and to consider how you manage your beliefs versus someone else's expectations / desires. Just pointing out that you're bound by the Teachers' professional standards and school policies
This is an almighty mess with all sorts of unintended consequences - as you point out, especially for children. But it's up to leadership teams to find reasonable adjustments for everyone

But I think you have to.

I mean, this is why this entire issue is so contentious - because it requires you to say things that aren't true. If they really think that they're experiencing something like the menopause (@nttt you ok with men laying claim to women's experiences? That's all fine with you? Because it's not with me.) But a title just about sits in the same box as a name for me.

I guess the only possible out is to use Mx for this person - or for everybody. But it would be very clear why you're doing it.

But it's up to leadership teams to find reasonable adjustments for everyone

It should be, but you can't rely on it. Ours are looking the other way and hoping we'll somehow sort it out between us. It's not going well so far.

You could start calling all your colleagues "Comrade" . 😁
But seriously, I'd find it very difficult too. As someone commented, it's a shame he can't be addressed by his occupation, like nurses or police constables.

Would your colleague accept using the grim-but-gender-neutral Mx, instead of sir or miss?

Apparently not. I can't even say Mx! It makes me think of boaty Mcboatface 🤣

But maybe, if I thought it might come up, I could ask him if he would accept that.

I bloody wish we could all just be called teacher, or comrade, that might actually give us a bit of a boost 🤣

Esteemed colleague it is then...

Good luck OP. We shouldn't have to lie or collude in all this - and kids certainly shouldn't. But given how viciously women in particular are targeted for transgressions, ensuring that we're aware of what the professional standards / policies dictate is essential.

He has been testing the waters. When he receives no push back, he goes a little further. He's always available to volunteer on outings. Any man who talked to me about hormones, would have got a loud "how dare you, young man". If everyone calls him "Miss", what do you think his next step will be? He is putting you in an untenable position. You sound like a kind person, but you are being emotionally manipulated. A "nice" man wouldn't behave this way. Your instincts are correct.

The very definition of gaslighting.

Yes, that is a worry.

I think I'm just going to try to avoid as much as possible and just hope it doesn't come up. It will though eventually. I'm wondering how long before he starts wearing dresses to school.

ACAS are captured by genderwoo, as are the unions, so I'd advise caution in expecting any help on this topic from either.

Your SLT might try to side step this, but sooner or later they are going to have to take the bull by the horns. Your colleague is in effect trying to impose his beliefs on you and worse, on the children. You might need to screw up your courage and ask, e.g. What are staff meant to say when students say 'that's Mr x why are you calling him miss x' or 'has Mr x become a woman'? Actual concrete examples of what you are worrying about. Are they asking you to gaslight the students in order to prop up the staff member's wishes, or what? They will squirm (if they are anything like the NHS management I've had to deal with) but if you ask about specific scenarios they'll have to give you an answer and then at least you'll know if they are going to prioritise this staff member, or the children.

I still think if this person says their name is now Miss X then you have to go along with it really. You wouldn't challenge someone who called themselves Miss if you knew they were married? Or would you?

It's a safeguarding nightmare and in direct breach of keeping children safe in education where it explicitly states it's emotional abuse for a child to be used purely for the validation of someone else, particularly if it requires them to state something they don't believe to be true or is something that is developmentally inappropriate for them (e.g. from the sounds of it this will be true for at least some of the autistic children).

It's emotional abuse.

And it's a safeguarding red flag to tell children that what an adult wants is more important than telling the truth i.e. they should lie if an adult tells them to.

depending on how and when it comes up, could you say to the students
'Mr Brown now wishes to be known as Miss Brown, please try to remember this'

and if any of then ask why etc

'You will have to ask Miss Brown about that'

@eggbot it wouldn't be obvious from looking at someone that they were married though. This is obvious. So not really the same thing.

The kids call all the female teachers miss. Regardless of married status. We don't care. The men are called sir.

Just highlighting this:

direct breach of keeping children safe in education where it explicitly states it's emotional abuse for a child to be used purely for the validation of someone else, particularly if it requires them to state something they don't believe to be true or is something that is developmentally inappropriate for them

The school leadership need to take responsibility for what they are allowing. It's not ok for schools to require children to lie because it's what an adult wants.

@nothingcomestonothing and @pronounsbundlebundle definitely yes. I think that's what I find the most difficult. It's the using miss in front of the kids, it makes me shudder. He's asking us to lie and it makes me so angry.

Is there any other part of school life where staff are expected to breach KCSIE? Aren't they supposed to be trained on NOT doing that each year?

Makes you wonder what other safeguarding breaches are happening.

@Icantpeopleanymore I really feel for you as in a work situation you are subject to legislation, case law and employer policies.

Using they/them is a pragmatic solution to not using sex based pronouns.

The title Mr or Miss is complex. It is not transphobic to use Mr but in work it may be considered discriminatory (gender reassignment PC) or a breach of policy.

A lot will depend on what is written in your employer’s staff handbook, conduct, dignity at work or bullying & harassment policies as they may require you to use Miss or possibly Mx ( not got a clue how to pronounce it)

I agree with pp talk to ACAS and your TU rep but also check your employers staff hand book and policies. You will then need to talk to your manager or HT and ask for guidance.

GC beliefs are protected but so is gender reassignment. They are equal and in this situation you may find it is a direct management instruction that determines the way forward.

Nope. The children are meant to come first. They are not there to validate adults. This is ultimately not about balancing the rights and beliefs of the adults, the needs of the children should take precedence. It's depressing that that has to be pointed out to OPs employer and colleague.

Is there any way that the school might consider making the move from using Sir/Miss to using teachers' first names generally, or in classes where the staff themselves were comfortable with it? There are schools where first names are the norm for everyone and it might make it easier.

I've just finished reading the 'Immersed in a fiction' chapter in Kathleen Stock's book 'Material Girls - Why Reality Matters for Feminism' (2021). She wrestles with how to manage the pronoun situation and doesn't get much further than the discussion on this thread but she does make the point that for trans people 'having your preferred pronouns or other sex-incongruent terms uses by others is a courtesy on their part and not a right on yours'.

@nothingcomestonothing I agree safeguarding and other risks also need to be considered. That is why a direct management instruction is needed.