March 8th Irish referendum on mothers in the home

[fromorbit]

Updating sexist language or removing the concept of motherhood from the Constitution so women's and mother's rights can be more easily crushed ?

The case for:
https://theconversation.com/according-to-irelands-constitution-a-womans-duties-are-in-the-home-but-a-referendum-could-be-about-to-change-its-sexist-wording-222477

The case against:
https://thecountess.ie/a-personal-account-of-why-i-will-be-voting-no-in-the-upcoming-constitutional-referendum-on-8th-march-2024/

The Countess and other groups are arguing for a no vote. Big No march today in Dublin.

What do people think? One thing is certain Irish women should be encouraged to discuss and debate this using their hard won freedoms and not tolerate anyone telling them to keep quiet.

Did she, I just looked back through her twitter and for the bulk of the campaign she has posted about endometriosis and a bit about housing. Absolutely nothing about the referendum until Saturday after it was over.

That's often a sign that a politician isn't in step with their party over a campaign.

Sorry I was thinking of Labour, SF and PBP leaders

Yeah, they are actually annoying me more than Leo, ROG, MM, etc. This attempt to rewrite history and blame the government for doing a bad job when they supported them instead of opposing them, is more insulting than anything.

i hope they’re held to account, ‘the government made me do it’ is such a pathetic message if they want to present themselves as a viable opposition.

It's beyond surreal that O Dea is so popular now. In his time as a cabinet minister he was widely regarded as out of his depth and something of a buffoon.

Mind you Brian Crowley MEP was hugely popular although he was known in Brussels as Fr Dougal. So you never can tell.

Next time I'm in the pub I might chance ' ah shur ould Bertie wasn't the worst at the back of it' - just to test the water like. If I don't post again ....it won't have ended well for me....

Didn't O’Dea have to pay out large sums of money after saying (and then denying he did) that a SF candidate was running a brothel? Nice guy

Eeek. I'd totally forgotten that. But then I tried to wipe the Celtic Bubble / Great Crash period from memory. Not a happy time chez Abhannmor.

O'Dea has been the most popular TD in Ireland for a couple of decades. He's not popular within the party as he's not the type of politician that plays internal party politics well. But with his electorate, he as popular as it gets. He regularly gets enough 1st preference votes to take 2 and a half seats, which due to the PR system means he takes a second FF TD in with him in most elections. So he's too important to the FF party elite to push him out but they don't ever seem to actually like him.

I've never liked him myself either. I'm not a fan of parish pump politics at parliamentary level. But he's just about the only TD who played a part in voting in the GRA who has held his hands up and said it brought in problems he hadn't foreseen and started campaigning to rectify those problems. So between that and today, I may start to review my old stance on him. Same as McDowell.

Yeah Willie is a pork barrel guy while McDowell is a committed Thatcherite on the economy. Neither has anything to lose now. O Dea could probably win in Limerick as an Independent at this stage? But he won't have to. FF learnt their lesson in South Kerry I imagine.

I also have new respect for McDowell. Don't like his politics but he is very honest and has a great intellect.

I think there's a difference between the old school O'Deas and McDowells. You might not like them or agree with them, but you could imagine having some kind of civilised encounter where you're at least coming from a normal place. O'Gorman et al, not so much.

Lisa Chambers campaigned for Yes/Yes. If you scroll down in the attached article there's a photograph of her handing out yes/yes leaflets on Grafton St.

https://extra.ie/2024/03/12/news/irish-news/taoiseach-swipe-lisa-chambers

I think I know what you mean. You could probably go for a few scoops with Willie , have the craic and agree to differ.

Not so sure about Rod. Your friends might be getting messages after...' a word to the wise about Stephaniesuperpowers...'

I learnt a great phrase on this thread: 'reverse ferretting' which describes what a lot of government politicians are doing post-referendum. I think there's an illustrative GIF? Anybody?
Alternatively: 'rats distancing themselves from a sinking ship' - I wish that was original but it's not😑

Case in point Gordon Brown caught on microphone calling Gillian Duffy a "bigoted woman". Ignorant, maybe, but it was his job to explain to her why he thought she was wrong. I genuinely believe that's what lost Labour 2010. The electorate did not want Tories outright, and Lib Dems came in for coalition. But they didn't want Labour after that.

Now all the Poles and Czechs have gone away so Gillian Duffy can relax. Grand old English name too btw.

I expect she voted Leave and will extend the hand of friendship to the African and Asian immigrants who will fill the gap in the workforce.

But yes , the failures of neoliberalism coming to.bite us on the arse. Its bound to play out here too. We are not immune to these shocks. Well some of us are safe in gated communities I suppose.

Oh, I completely agree they’d no hope of explaining them @MarieDeGournay - but as they’re now claiming that’s what they should have done, it would be a delight to see them try 😈
As for discussion of Irish politicians, it’s up to MNers from elsewhere to research the names & inform themselves 🤷‍♀️ It’s not as if threads about UK issues don’t have the names of random British politicians lobbed in. It doesn’t shut anyone out from contributing; & it’s particularly important, I think, for MNers in the UK to know about their neighbours 😊

Sorry @Mermoose , I worded that very badly: normal people are talking about it, but there doesn’t seem to be the media coverage? In fairness I’m a wee bit limited as I’m over in the UK & reading the papers/watching wee clips from RTÉ just so there might be stuff I’ve missed; but none of the papers seemed to want to get into it.

@disaggregate the reverse ferreting (not sure if attached GIF is the one MarieDeGournay means…) is grim isn’t it? So cowardly of them 🤬

@Abhannmor
Ach, poor Gordon Brown - between that & being blamed for somehow not being able to control the global economy… then we got the gift of crippling austerity 🤦‍♀️ But it was Scotland that was the biggest shift - the SNP just took over & that’s what left things in the UK in the hands of the Lib Dem’s who decide to obliterate their Party by going into coalition with the Tories, with whom they have exactly no shared values. Well, in theory: the shitting all over the electorate thing proved a unifying force 🤷‍♀️

Great letter in today's Irish Times, 'bad faith actors copying our homework' is brill!
I don't know the etiquette around posting letters to editors here, do we include the writer's full name? I know they've signed the letter, but posting it here places it in a different arena. I've just used her initials to be on the safe side, glad to give her full recognition if that's all right.

Sir, – Kathy Sheridan seems to want to blame 1.1 million No voters for the fact that a handful of far-right men are attempting to attach themselves to women’s issues. The far right have always and will always glom on to whatever causes will bring them profile and attention, and your columnist has delivered on both.
Gathering to celebrate our victory does not mean we are enabling the far right. Recognising mothers in the Constitution does not mean elevating mothers over anybody else. Fighting to maintain the words we use to define the female sex does not mean we are engaged in a “war against transgenderism”. Protecting our sex-based rights does not mean we are projecting “pent-up hatred” toward anyone.

Ignoring bad-faith actors who are copying our homework does not mean we are responsible for whatever they do next.
Perhaps your columnist might heed her own reminder that “functioning human brains are capable of accommodating several ideas at the same time”. – Yours, etc,
H. D.
Monkstown,
Co Dublin.

That is a fabulous letter. HD of Monkstown, I salute you!

This 👆🏻

Thank you H.D

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-grim-reality-of-a-citizens-assembly/
A good article by Colette Colfer.
She also has this additional information posted
https://twitter.com/ColetteColfer/status/1775464161947836822?t=shpIxSp0HB7FpVIJNqliPg&s=19

Oh excellent, Colette is great.