March 8th Irish referendum on mothers in the home

[fromorbit]

Updating sexist language or removing the concept of motherhood from the Constitution so women's and mother's rights can be more easily crushed ?

The case for:
https://theconversation.com/according-to-irelands-constitution-a-womans-duties-are-in-the-home-but-a-referendum-could-be-about-to-change-its-sexist-wording-222477

The case against:
https://thecountess.ie/a-personal-account-of-why-i-will-be-voting-no-in-the-upcoming-constitutional-referendum-on-8th-march-2024/

The Countess and other groups are arguing for a no vote. Big No march today in Dublin.

What do people think? One thing is certain Irish women should be encouraged to discuss and debate this using their hard won freedoms and not tolerate anyone telling them to keep quiet.

I read the articles thank you that’s interesting. The critique is fairly placed on the government that no actual support of mothers is involved, despite this pledge, so it is meaningless.

maybe government needs to decide if it’s aiming to a ymbolically recognise only or is actually promising to help women/carers with kids. and noting that from the kids wellbeing perspective that if this is a practical help pledge that it might not (but nearly always will be) their mother caring for them.

i’d love to see any government actually committing that it will actively support households with children or caring responsibilities and where the adults need financial and or social support, the vast majority of whom the government knows are women… both practically and symbolically.

And recognising the contribution parents and carers make to the state is really important too.

I think it will be of zero benefit to women whichever side wins. So could there be anything worse than the status quo? Well, we know it's being pushed by Roderic O'Gorman, so the chances of it only being neutral for women are very low.

Speech from Saturday
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I couldn't find the NO article by following the above link. This one should work

https://thecountess.ie/the-countess-is-launching-its-vote-no-referendum-campaign/

Your OP misrepresents what is being voted on as it omits the care referendum which has completely skewed voting patterns. Many people who would vote to delete 41.2 are voting to retain it due to the collation of having to accept the equally paternalistic but also ableist care referendum if they want to delete 41.2

They are two separate votes. Discussed extensively here: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/craicnet/5003994-referendum?page=1

No, the mother in the home and the care clause are one and the same vote.

The other vote is about adding 'durable relationships' to 'marriage' in relation to families, and deleting 'marriage' as the basis on which families are founded. Changes in bold below, and as deleted

Article 41.1.1° “The State recognises the Family, whether founded on marriage or on other durable relationships, as the natural primary and fundamental unit group of Society, and as a moral institution possessing inalienable and imprescriptible rights, antecedent and superior to all positive law.”
Proposed to change Article 41.3.1° by deleting text shown with line through it:
“The State pledges itself to guard with special care the institution of Marriage, on which the Family is founded, and to protect it against attack.”

Brenda Power put forward an argument for voting No on 41.2 - I don't know how to do a share token 😬, if anyone else can.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/carers-and-women-deserve-better-than-this-referendum-jf8cmtnvd

This is an archived copy:
https://archive.is/Dg6bU

If you don’t understand it, vote no no.

It’s a total travesty that something so poorly defined and open to interpretation is allowed to go to referendum

Looking forward to lodging my two No votes tomorrow but unfortunately I think the Yes vote may just about be carried.

Hopefully, the leaked documents on the AG advice to government in Dec '23 get to be discussed. I think the moratorium only means no advocacy from 2pm 7/3/24. We'll see.

https://www.ontheditch.com/attorney-general-advice-in-full

Low turnout so far so all the more reason to vote, whatever your view on the amendments.

www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0308/1436677-referendum-ireland/

I’m not surprised there’s a low turnout - my family members in the South aren’t registered to vote and say they hadn’t heard anything about the Referendum until I mentioned it to them recently. They’re annoyed that it’s happening and that they aren’t able to participate in it but sure what good is that?! 🤷‍♀️ In Ireland, North and South, I encounter so many people who complain about politics but don’t vote - drives me mad!

Well, I guess that's what you call a landslide!!! There even appear to be small rural regions coming in at over 90% No.

I had a feeling that the 'Care' referendum would be a No, but I was less confident in the 'Family' referendum. I was cautiously optimistic but also aware that social media isn't real life. Though it seems that it's turning out it's only not real life in that the 'Yes,No' campaign appeared falsely inflated by social media.

In my real life experience people I know who rarely vote for anything were saying they would be voting No on these. It really does seem like there is a silent, increasingly pissed off, majority. And the main thing these referendums have achieved is that it has let us make our presence known.

Looking good for No/No! RTE suggesting a 'comprehensive defeat' of the Government's proposed amendments.
And they can't just blame rights-hoarding dinosaurs, there seems to be across-the-board rejection, for a variety of reasons, notably that the amendments were 'a pig in a poke'.

Some people I know are already blaming the far right. It's genuinely fucking tedious at this point. They live in such a bubble that they can't look at this level of defeat and realise that they are massively out of touch with most of the people around them.

It would be marvellous if this defeat made Irish politicians and the Irish media think about trying to understand diverse views and engage with them. Won't happen, but we can dream.

Do they honestly think the 90% regions are 90% far right? Because I'd be pretty fucking worried about the state of my country if I truly believed that...

I honestly think they suffer from a level of cognitive dissonance that's leaving many of them unable to make that leap. The thing that genuinely worries me, is that if people keep on getting called far right, eventually they'll just shrug their shoulders and go, 'fine, fuck it, I'm far right so.' Which could potentially lead to a genuine rise is further right thinking down the line.

Feels like how the Brexit vote felt, people voting who actually had to get to a polling booth and making a decision about something "real" and not behind a screen. Reality won out for Ireland. Well done, Éire.

90pc are conservative (small c) and otherwise people didn't bother.

In Brexit, there was too much apathy in/confidence that "remain" would win even by people voting "leave" (imo) that a lot of people voted for their feelings/a protest vote/to attack the government and also anyone who might have voted "remain" didn't bother.

It feels like this, and now the "far right/narrow minded" slurs will come out.

Diversity? In Ireland? You gotta be kidding me! My family had to move to England a hundred years ago when "who said what to who" didn't matter any more

A yes voter said to me today. “Why bother going to vote if you’re just voting no”.

Another example of total ignorance.

It’s looking good for a no/no landslide.

Because your vote is "worth more" if you do and so many don't.

A yes voter said to me today. “Why bother going to vote if you’re just voting no”.

LOL. That would be because you don't want "yes" to win?