March 8th Irish referendum on mothers in the home

[fromorbit]

Updating sexist language or removing the concept of motherhood from the Constitution so women's and mother's rights can be more easily crushed ?

The case for:
https://theconversation.com/according-to-irelands-constitution-a-womans-duties-are-in-the-home-but-a-referendum-could-be-about-to-change-its-sexist-wording-222477

The case against:
https://thecountess.ie/a-personal-account-of-why-i-will-be-voting-no-in-the-upcoming-constitutional-referendum-on-8th-march-2024/

The Countess and other groups are arguing for a no vote. Big No march today in Dublin.

What do people think? One thing is certain Irish women should be encouraged to discuss and debate this using their hard won freedoms and not tolerate anyone telling them to keep quiet.

Ah ok I get it now. As a full time worker, a mother and full time carer I completely agree.

Dress it up how you like it was still the same question.

He wrote the constitution. He didn't coerce any change (seeing as he died the year I did my Leaving cert he'd have found it a challenge).

I expressed myself badly.

The Irish political system has many features of the UK one (unsurprisingly), but it has the advantage of a written constitution. We would be better off in the UK with better political education and understanding and less tribal politics, though we can’t do anything about the constitution. If we do feel the need for referenda, they should be thought through and supervised, properly, with a proper referendum commission to oversee. (It was even unclear whether the recent Brexit referendum was binding or otherwise.)

That would be a more grown up approach.

To me it means that, BECAUSE this is your role one way or another (women, let's face it, even if you don't have children you may end up as the carer for parents, in-laws etc much more.disproportinayely from your husband) you are recognised for this and further to this, by doing these roles you are honoured by the Irish state for it.

Damn better than having female caring role and it being ignored by the state or worse expected of you because of your sex.

I'm a woman. Caring is not my biological destiny.

I'd rather share that with men!

Oh I see, not proposed the amendments?

Agreed. And not should it be. But for millions of women, it is. Society, even women, who are sometimes worse, bully other women into that position for whatever reason.

I can’t help but feel really sad today that the sexist language is still in the Constitution, but at the same time I didn’t vote so have no right - the last minute articles by the disability campaigners made me pause for thought so couldn’t bring myself to in the end.
i definitely take issue with the inference in the Constitution that women have duties in the home and men don’t. It’s not true to say there’s been no progress in this area - I see massive differences between my life and my mums life for example, my dad still expects her to wait on him (and she worked full time out of the home!). I worry that this result will entrench attitudes that a woman has more home duties than a man, and there’s no point denying it. sometimes I feel like I’m the only one fighting this, and it has more potential to adversely affect my life, and my daughters life, than anything to do with, for example, trans rights. There are a lot of quite unpleasant people celebrating this result on X. Still, the suggested wording was terrible - but definitely I’m depressed.

Your post resonates and I feel for you.

I also found this organisation's view persuasive.

https://www.familycarers.ie/news-and-campaigns/referendums-on-family-and-care

Rather? You told men this?

That’s not what the Irish constitution says.
But it is how the government sneakily tried to spin it in order to remove rights and status from women and mothers.

Yep. :)

The Irish political system is completely different from the UK one.

We have a representative electoral system for our lower chamber of parliament, unlike the UK, and no religious representatives or hereditary members in the upper chamber. And we usually elect our President - again, no hereditary head of State. And out Head of State is not head of an established church, because we don't have an established church.

Agreed. We had a chance on September 2010 with PR. I can't see the chances of that coming back for a long time. We had a real chance then.

Oh, and we don't have an honours system granting people titles, either hereditary or for life.

He's hardly coercing a constitutional change. The man is dead. He was involved in the creation of the Constitution.

Thanks for the mansplain. I do know. And if you read what I wrote, you will see I was asking why someone who thought referenda worked well in Ireland would think it would work equally well in a completely different system, where it doesn't. So you didn't need to post that, did you?

I misread the name of the person!

Anything else you'd like to add to this "What's different from the UK to Eire"? Because that's not what I said, sorry that you thought that's what I said.

Mansplain! How very dare you, women can be Deans too you know!

Exactly. Varadkar et al had their arse handed to them

It's the manner, not your sex.

Not every post is about you.

@ borntobequiet , at 11:10 today, said The Irish political system has many features of the UK one (unsurprisingly) . I was pointing out that the two systems are very different at every level. Unsurprisingly.

This is it. Many people who voted no were in favour of change, but not the changes offered. A combination of poorly defined (not defined) language and the positioning of care within the family (with the state doing a quick hand wash of obligation) made the proposals unpalatable. Ironically, the "care clause" which was supposed to replace the somewhat outmoded language around the contribution women make through what we do in home life, was squarely landing caring on the shoulders of women. We KNOW women do the lion's share of carework (in and outside the home) from children, to the elderly. We patronise those who do it at home and we inadequately pay those who do it outside the home. The replacement clause was effectively landing caring responsibilities on women, without even acknowledging the fact. It is very hard to see how anyone could see that as a feminist win. And that's before you get to the patronisation of disabled people that was implicit in the clause.

If non-Irish posters want to comment on the referendum and the outcome, they might make some effort to inform themselves. (Not directed at yourself RTB).

I know, but you replied to me.