Using sex-based pronouns instead of their preferred gender-ID pronouns

[DuesToTheDirt]

Has anyone ever done this? What happened?

I mean for people you know in real life, not on the internet, and for adults not children.

I would love to do this, though I don't suppose I will. But I feel that by saying "she" to refer transwomen I am being forced into a lie, that I am agreeing to someone's delusion. I try to avoid using pronouns, but realistically that just results in either not talking about certain people (which is definitely one strategy!) or using really convoluted language. It's all very well being "kind" to people, but it's certainly not kind on me.

Hmmm ... First off looking androgynous is not unattractive. Lots of people look androgynous and are stunning. Women aren't obligated to dress a certain way.

The model below is a great example of androgyny.

My partner is frankly gorgeous. People hit on him all the time often having no clue he's trans. He's just a good looking guy. He was also a good looking butch lesbian. He's certainly not downplayed his looks. Either way he's attractive. To be honest it's kinda annoying. 😉

Gotcha! In that case "they" is a safe bet. You sound very kind at any rate and I'm sure they appreciate that. 💞

Not all trans or nonbinary people get bad if you make a mistake. The ones I know are very chill. I suspect most are they just fly under the radar.

That's a very black and white view of the world.
Why do you think this?

Trans people have been around for years. Many don't want any of the things you say. Some are quite vocal and have a huge platform and are speaking out in support of women's rights.

Look, I know there are lots of things to consider regarding the potential effect of the trans community on all the issues you mentioned, and no doubt more besides. I'm not going to go into all of that on here, not because I don't have opinions on them, but because it would take too long. Someone asked the question about which pronouns others would use to address trans people, and I answered based on my own thoughts and feelings. That's it. Frankly, I don't care if anyone disagrees with me referring to my relative as female. I'll continue to do it because that's what she wants.

Care to name those with a huge platform speaking out in support of women’s rights?

No, I wouldn't deliberately use a certain pronoun for someone who has clearly told me that they want me to use a different one. I think that's rude.

I might make a mistake or forget sometimes, but I would do my best to refer to them as they prefer.

MN Debbie Hayton is quite upfront about being an AGP. He also uses ‘He’. And he wrote schools guidance which clearly says children and staff should behave in ways which validates what he now admits is AGP. He also stated in a recent newspaper article that he wished he could use the women's like he used to. As an AGP he admits himself to be. So why delete?

Are we now not allowed to outline how women have been harmed by gender ideology?

If he identifies as a transman, then yes those are his pronouns.

What gives you the right to assign anybody's pronouns? Pronouns are what the individual wants them to be. They are not dictated by a person's label or presentation.
<eyeroll>

Do you know any transmen who want to be referred to as they or she?

Yes. I know females who identify as transmen and want to be called they/them. I also know one who requires neopronouns. <likewise eyeroll>

You can accept someone as a trans person while still wanting the above to be respected.

You can accept someone as a trans person without taking on for yourself the role of support person. I will no more validate a trans person's identity belief than I will validate a Christian's religious belief.

Amazing how I manage to have Christian friends without them insisting that I convert to their faith, nor requiring me to mouth platitudes that make it look like I believe what they believe.

You know she's not a bloke,she knows she's not a bloke but you both pretend that she's a bloke?

Some are quite vocal and have a huge platform and are speaking out in support of women's rights.

Can you provide some names of transwomen doing this, please?

The Gnostics were dualists, so they thought there was the good god, who created the soul, and the bad god, who created the material world, including bodies that imprisoned souls. When people die, they leave the body behind and exist properly as a pure soul. Gnostics and other dualists tend to do some extreme mortifications.

In Christianity, the body and soul for a proper unity, and both are good. After dearth the body and soul are temporarily separated, which is an unnatural state - we aren't really ourselves without our bodies. This is seen as an effect of the Fall, because we are no longer in unity with God, the source of life. After the end of the world we are meant to be reunited with our bodies which are supposed to be transformed and regain their incorruptible nature through the mediation of Christ who regenerates that connection between the divine life and the body.

Mortification of the flesh can happen in Christian practice though it's conceived a little differently, it's usually seen as a way to help manage the appetites. Since the body is in itself good, it isn't supposed to go too far, though what that would include has been interpreted differently at different times. In a lot of cases it's Protestantism in the early modern period where things go a little crazy on that front.. It tends to be much more skeptical about the body than Catholicism.

This is the rule of thumb I follow. Don't talk to them, don't interact with them, don't talk about them, and therefore there won't be a shit storm if you accidentally get it wrong/refuse to lie.

Blaire White

😂It’s actually rather complicated and I wish it was different.

I don't personally know anyone who identifies with these things however actually it really wouldn't bother me if I did & they wanted to identify as such. I don't see the issue personally speaking: & certainly wouldn't impose my own views on someone who identifies as whatever they want. It's not my story & why would my view trump theirs, it's their life isn't it? Not mine. It's not costing me anything to use their chosen pronoun or whatever.
I feel like it's the very least of our problems as a human race.

Emm because it's their choice, their life, you do realise that just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean that your right trumps the individual who you are disrespecting.
And don't keep trying to turn it around it's not fresh. Not sure why you believe that your view is more important than the individual who has free choice to call themselves what they like. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate being called by the wrong name or wrong pronoun.

yes. I gathered that you would affirm any identity. Even someone who identified as a lizard or a snake.

if you cannot see the significance in affirming such an identity, I doubt anyone will convince you of the harm you cause through doing so.

I don’t relate to anyone on the basis of just what they tell me about themselves. I relate to them on the basis of what I observe, in terms of their behaviour. So if someone tells me that I must use certain words about them, that’s a bit of a warning. The terms of healthy relationships aren’t dictated by one person to the other.

Blair White
Kalvin Garrah (trans man)
Theyrn Meyer testified on behalf of Jordon Peterson
Lady Maga (drag queen)

That said at some point they've all been attacked by both sides.

Blair has dealt with women yelling at her when she's literally agreeing with them, and trans activists who call her transphobic.

No they won't. I feel like it's the very least of our issues as a human race to be honest it's petty, self protective & ridiculous. I know you disagree & that's ok. We can disagree

This is interesting to me.
If I present female and introduce myself as Josette, am I telling you to use certain words?

Do you make exceptions to trans people who pass? If you met Lisa who looks like a woman and you only know she's trans because she's told you, do you immediately refer to her as a man now?

And if people who pass get treated better how do we dissuade young people from early transition?

Oh really? So if I said my name is Tracy & to you I just didn't look like a Tracy, you'd just plainly refuse & call me something else. Ok.
Strangely judgemental in a backhanded way