Using sex-based pronouns instead of their preferred gender-ID pronouns

[DuesToTheDirt]

Has anyone ever done this? What happened?

I mean for people you know in real life, not on the internet, and for adults not children.

I would love to do this, though I don't suppose I will. But I feel that by saying "she" to refer transwomen I am being forced into a lie, that I am agreeing to someone's delusion. I try to avoid using pronouns, but realistically that just results in either not talking about certain people (which is definitely one strategy!) or using really convoluted language. It's all very well being "kind" to people, but it's certainly not kind on me.

I was shouted and sworn at by a friend of the person I referred to. The person who shouted at me doesn’t speak to me now.

I've been told off for this IRL in a social context. It was at a board games meetup. The transwoman I was talking about wasn't present.

I once referred to a trans student, in front of other students, by sex based pronoun but I wasn't thinking much about it until after it slipped out ("he"). I was terrified for a second because I think teenagers can be very unforgiving but none of the students said anything.

Maybe the tide is finally starting to turn among teens. I don't think so though.

Got a student who has changed her name first to a male, then a unisex name. Sometimes I say they, sometimes she. Doesn't seem to bother her. We have a good relationship. Only ever caused a slight issue as a cover teacher didn't know to look for her male name which some.of her files were still under. I treat it all as a total non issue. Never comment on the names.

I do. A few people are outraged, most query it, many accept it without issue. Those that accept it often seem to relax. Those that query it find my responses thought-provoking. Those that are outraged do not acknowledge that I have any rights.

When referring to a trans-identified person in their presence I avoid using pronouns. But sometimes they are necessary. That's how language works. In which case I try to use 3rd person plural. I do not use accurate pronouns except accidentally - genuinely accidentally - because all such people that I know personally are emotionally fragile and I have no desire to distress them, and I do not know how those I do not already have a relationship with will react. I generally assume that their reactions will be as unreasonable as their demands.

I also use 3rd person plural to refer to trans-ID'd individuals when talking to their family (again, no wish to hurt them further) or to individuals whose outrage is not worth my discomfort (again, no trust in their reactions). And often when talking to my captured dc. They know my opinions, and my relationship with them is more important than being hard-nosed about a contentious topic.

I have a they person at work who I refer to as she on occasion. One other does as well. I suspect most think it's an accident so politely ignore it, it doesn't come up much.

Another person I worked with I avoided using pronouns at all as I felt she was rather emotionally vulnerable and I wasn't the person to deal with that, I don't think anyone noticed tbh.

Haa, yes, when talking about a famous genderist person once, I got patronisingly corrected... Most of the time no one says anything though. But TBF I I don't actually talk about trans people much.

I was referring to someone who'd left my workplace (in positive terms) but I didn't know the person was non-binary so used 'she'. There's no chance I'd run into her again ever as she'd emigrated. However another colleague kept pointedly referring to her as 'they' and was glaring at me. I thought initially the person had emigrated as part of a couple. It was only afterwards I realised that I was being corrected. FFS.

I wouldn't but for those who are uncomfortable and with trans people's pronouns, wouldn't it be easier just using their names?

No need to worry about anything then.

Just don't talk about them. If they're so emotionally fragile, they'll probably be glad of it.

Yep, I grey rock the gender special in my work place. They get the bare minimum of polite interaction required to the job. I avoid speaking of them at all in their absence.

They are like dangerous toddlers desperate for attention. Best not to give it to them, nor give them any way to complain about you.

By "gender special" do you mean trans people?

Do you think all trans people are "dangerous toddlers"?

By "trans people" do you mean people who insist that they're not the sex they obviously are?

I know a "they" who I see in a big group of people who do an activity together, so we are naturally saying each other's pronouns in front of each other all the time. Tbh most of us still say he/him, it's very hard to basically lie in normal conversation! Is it even themself or themselves? Themselves is literally a plural! He keeps on correcting us during the activity and it's so distracting to the task in hand.

I absolutely never use she, I try to avoid pronouns where possible, but there's only so many times you can refer to someone by name without your speech sounding clunky. If pronouns are needed, I generally use they, but might 'accidentally' drop in the odd he, which no one has ever pulled me up on.

I usually only do that if we're discussing a behaviour that absolutely reaks of male privilege, but no one is allowed to point that out. (The transwomen I'm most likely to be talking about is a deadbeat dad, but gets away with things the kids mother would be massively judged for)

What about transmen? Do they factor in this?

What about Transwomen who also fight for women's rights because they disagree transwomen are "real women"? Are they also revolting men?

Or young people who often have autism and are vulnerable?

It amazes me that on @mumsnet you can generalize an entire group of people like this and it's ok.

I have met many different trans people who are all vastly different. Aside from being trans they don't have a ton in common.

How nice for you, Josette77.

Back on topic: I’ve noticed that it’s often friends and allies who accidentally use sex-based pronouns for non-binary people. Because their sex is obvious, regardless of dress, mannerisms etc.

As for myself, I try to be careful at work but I value my freedom of conscience at home where I say what comes naturally. And if a family member uses wrong-sex pronouns for somebody, I correct them!

There is an exception I make for a friend in the context of a very vulnerable trans-identified young person that this friend is close to. I just avoid pronouns in this case because I don’t think my friend is ready for anything else and neither is my friend under any illusion about the young person’s sex.

I had this situation only yesterday at work. I work in a university and there's a transman in one of my groups. I don't know what pronouns they use so when talking about them to colleagues I use them. But yesterday I said "she" in error and instantly felt like I'd commmitted a huge faux pas. No one said anything but I'm now scared they think of me as a bigot.

If he's a transman he would use he/him.

Bravo 🙌

Nobody will think you’re a bigot, garlictwist, because they’ve all done it, too. Perception of sex is hard-wired into humans and I challenge even the most fervent trans advocate to swear, hand on heart, that they have never-ever ‘misgendered’ anyone. Are you really free from sin?

On a side note, this whole ‘failing to honour gender identity thing’ is becoming a bit like original sin in Christianity, isn’t it? What times we live in!

I have a "they" at work and avoid using pronouns at all. I don't believe in all this gender stuff and refuse to partake in it. I use their (her) name if I speak about them (her). There's another woman at work that does the same when talking about this individual, so we bond over our GC-ness.

I use preferred pronouns. I don't see another option for the trans people I know. A bit like calling a priest Father, though I know a lot more trans people than priests.

I did correct-sex a young friend loudly not that long ago. Just chatting round the table, he said something very on the ball, I turned to my son and said jokily 'what she said'. Felt horrible, like I'd kicked him. As if I'd referred to a child's plan to be an actor as a fantasy or something. It's difficult because he transitioned 2 years ago just before uni, I've known her since she was little.

I don't think my politics are more important than my friends feelings. I do want to reach a point where we have a society where young women are not taking drugs to believe they aren't women. I don't want to hurt them.

I think children now need to be taught to call everyone 'they'. Because sometimes you don't know and it's hard.

Also we learnt he/she and it takes a lot of effort to alter it so if we stick to they for everyone it becomes much easier.

I've seen plenty of trans women mostly who just assume other peoples gender and pronouns.

Recently a trans person in an airport and a different one in restaurants.
They both assumed the people around thems pronouns instead of asking as we are exhorted to often.
Weird how often it only works one way