Another GC Employment Tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #5

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gender Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22-23 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Miren Sagues (MS): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katie Horburgh (KH): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2
Thread #3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4990903-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-3
Thread #4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4991883-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-4

Her degree was in sociology.

And she appears to have been heavily involved in Girlguiding. Pics with lots of rainbow flags.
The ideology was getting bedded in years ago.

She's clearly very bright and able. I feel genuinely sad at the indoctrination of a young woman who with her confidence and skills could do so much for other women.

I remember going to a third sector meeting and hearing a much lauded ‘expert’ talk utter BS, and a colleague saying with an eye roll that “every sector has its stars”. MW appears to be that star - people hear and see the BS, but are caught up in an insular little world where the charismatic characters who are promoted way beyond their abilities somehow hold sway, and to speak out against them is to speak out against the whole sector and to ensure you’ll never work in it again.

The Life of Brian springs to mind - “he’s not the Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy”. Women (and it’s mainly women sadly) need to stop pandering to this male ego.

I think the main thing NC succeeded in saying with this witness is that the Board chose a brand new trustee with minimal experience to handle a disciplinary process and didn't provide her with any back up or mentoring to ensure ahead got it right.

Tenuously linked, but the mother was interviewed on our local news last night. The victim is still in pieces. This is shocking:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-68033275

That's a shocking amount

Just wanted to post this Naomi Cunningham appreciation thread from Twitte r. Think we'd all concur she's been a Shero. And of course, huge thanks to JKR who presumably funded this case.

https://twitter.com/MrsLouiseWS/status/1750172211426582894?s=19

In the same spirit…Classy from Sarah Vine KC (not the journalist, the Human Rights silk).

Another fab thread expressing the strong desire to see NC cross examine MW...

https://twitter.com/Fontybits1/status/1750143202223411343?s=19

We really, really, really deserve this.

Can't understand why anyone would choose to live in Drylaw when "they could live in Morningside". Can't understand why anyone would choose to send their kids to their local catchment High School. Extolls the virtues of Mellis the Cheesemongers in Stockbridge without understanding the person they are speaking to is struggling to afford cheese from Aldi.

Thanks to everyone posting, loving the poetry

The fact that all the respondent witnesses trolled out the exact same line demonstrates there is as a matter of fact a puppeteer and that is MW.

YY.

Just caught up with the the afternoon's witness. First impressions are that she handled herself quite well. Toed the party line but didn't seem quite as in thrall to MW as other witnesses and not as willing to look like a gigantic fool.

I feel like there's a bit of hope this one might come to her senses at some point in the future. I note that unlike others she doesn't appear to have personal investment e.g a trans child or own identity.

Happy for others to disagree on this take as this is just what I took from written transcript and wasn't listening live.

She was quite impressive in a "future politician" sort of way. Clearly very bright, and accomplished for one so young, but slippery. She didn't strike me as particularly ethical. She was probably the least floundering of all 4 witnesses. Much less hapless.

"I use my personality, not everyone has that", que smirk.

If MW presented as a big, muscular bald man who wears stereotypically male clothes they would not have got the CEO position. Even if they were fully loud and proud about being a TW. They just wouldn't have. Which leads me to think that the people who hired MW are as 'transphobic' as anyone else.

It's been mentioned that a budding MP in the making here.

We should all remember the name and make damn sure that doesnt happen.

Also worknest do not come out of this well, anyone who uses them should probably find another provider. And if you do please ask before you leave about this utter binfire and the intern did it.

Im pissed off about MW seeing minorities like muslims who cannot be in a room alone with a man.

Really hoping this is near the end for ercc, or at the very least a thorough rout

I kept thinking today about JK Rowlings last Strike novel because the power dynamics here really reminded me of it. One of the things that really struck me through this is how cult-like it is, MW with all her handmaidens doing her bidding. The power, the control. It's deeply unsettling. And the fact it's a rape crisis centre where no-one seems to GAF about the SUs. Of all the cases this one really would make a fantastic drama. I cant stop thinking about it, it's so disturbing.

It's been mentioned that a budding MP in the making here.

MSP. Probably a list one getting in on 6% of the regional vote.

Especially if you had cut aways to the rape and sexual assault victims just trying to navigate their lives and get help without the help introducing further trauma and hurdles!

I thought she seemed extremely ethical - adhering to her moral principles- not principles that I adhere to - but ethical nonetheless. In the same way that I might respect the convictions of a devoutly religious person, without having to share them

On a broader point, not in response to the quoted post, the discussion in the tribunal has been about the ability to tolerate and work alongside those of different beliefs, without resorting to mudslinging or personal atracks. My impression of KH this afternoon was that she would potentially make a great politician - clever, considered, calm, thoughtful, able to think through an arguement. NC challenged her and she withstood that. I might not vote for her, but I could respect her.

Some of the comments on this, the FWR board, have veered very close to 'know your place, young lady'.

Some of the comments on this, the FWR board, have veered very close to 'know your place, young lady'.

well yes. But also no. Because she has zero experience, she brings zero authority to the job. And she's going to discipline a woman with a record like RA?

All power to her if she goes into politics - but not if she goes from school, to uni, to what she does now (non-jobs, but very right on) and then to parliament? These are the kind of politicians that get us into really big messes.

I thought the last witness seemed more fundamentally untruthful than the previous ones. She seemed to value being able to be slippery.

Some of the comments on this, the FWR board, have veered very close to 'know your place, young lady'.

Are we not allowed to make an assessment of a woman who has fallen hook, line and sinker for a harmful ideology, the direct result of which places women who have been raped at risk of further trauma? Are we meant to just accept her because she is young and female?

All power to her if she goes into politics

’All power’ to a woman who has so little concern for women who have been abused and violated that she places the wants of a man above their needs in a service that is meant to support them? No!

No, of course not. But many of the posters have focussed on the fact she IS young and female and probably went to a posh school (she didnt) and seemed a bit full of herself and...

It really devalue the arguement if the criticism is about her person and not what she said