Jo Phoenix in Woman’s Hour today (Tuesday)

[crumpet]

There may already be a thread but I didn’t spot one. Wanted to flag this (rather unexpected!) interview.

Womans Hour starts at 10am

Talking about prison...and TW in prison. And their profile...

Oooh that was a lovely question (in the end) from Emma to give Jo a chance to answer re prisons.

Such a clear defence of her position there - not saying all places in society should be organised by sex not gender identity, but where places and needs are complex like prisons, then keep men away from women, regardless of how they identify.

Great to hear Jo is indefatigable and laughing at the end.

Fucking brilliant.

Stonewall decline to give a statement.

OU Statement - we acknowledge we can learn - deeply concerned about wellbeing about everyone ... priortiy to protect FoS - we were disappointed - we need time to consider inc right to appeal

Anon - this is happenning across academia - needs to be action taken to protect - mentions Raquel Rosario Sanchez - Dr Emma Williamson

Yes arabella I didn’t like that the OU said they were disappointed by the judgment. No apology to jo and it seems they are thinking more about an appeal
listeing to jo speak was just brilliant. What a great woman she is and what an awful thing she has to go through

just like going through a rape trail

Brilliant interview

Fantastic interview. Will the OU now take disciplinary action against Prof Westmarland? I see she is still in post.

Such a powerful interview - quite how Jo has been able to function during these last years I know not. It’s a fucking witch hunt.

I agree that gender critical beliefs is not always a helpful phrase - for the many who don’t follow this issue too closely or really care and are largely ill informed it can sound as if the person is critical of gender and of people who hold those beliefs - and it’s not a big leap from there (unless you know better) to assume that criticism means you’re transphobic (and again, little in the way of explanation around what that word actually means). It can therefore be easy for the TRAs to use that to their advantage.

Well done Jo. She was a bit nervous to start but soon hit her stride.

She had a lot more to say too I felt. Emma did say she would have her on again.

Oh fantastic, will listen now on sounds

I'm so pleased they covered this. Would love to know how much Emma Barnett had to do with the decision. I kept copying her in to tweets yesterday saying it cried out to be covered by Woman's Hour. Emma is a very good journalist.
And Jo? Well she's an exceptional woman and it's a bloody disgrace she was put through this by the bloody Open University FFS. May she find some peace in her life now it's complete.

Great interview, I have so much admiration for Jo. And well done Emma Barnett for allowing her the space to speak and respond to comments.

I'm so glad that Emma put that silly, shaming, uninformed comment about being 'afraid' of trans people to her. That's the gist of what I hear from friends my age who want to show off their cool credentials. All it really shows is that they haven't looked beyond the hashtags and virtue mantras, and it was great to give Jo the chance to expose the shallowness of that accusation with some real world application - exactly the kind of issues that academics need to be able to pick apart.

Nice work Emma, and bloody well done Jo. Thanks for your courage, resilience and articulacy. (If that's even a word.)

I think some people interpret 'gender critical' as someone who is critical of anyone who has a non-standard 'gender'. I'm probably not expressing that very well, but I think activists are capitalising on the fact that most people don't give much thought to gender or gender identity at all and are aware that other minority groups have often been unfairly treated. So 'gender critical' can easily be presented and reacted to as if it's personal antipathy towards people who are different and possibly troubled.

I wonder what the bottom line is for the OU on this. I imagine they will be paying legal fees for both parties and compensation.

I'm so proud of Jo, as a very small gardener for her I felt like crying when I heard her this morning, thinking of all the wonderful women who funded this and of course how fantastic Jo is. A monstrous regiment of women behind her and the other women willing to stand up for women's rights and free speech.

People have a default view of what they think trans is. They don't think or know about all the cases and experiences we see on these boards and elsewhere. Just in the last few days we've had the nappy perv and the 'her penis' flasher. They can't understand these are just bog-standard creepy men, however they identify.

The more people who contact Woman's Hour and say well done and ask for more like this, Helen Joyce maybe - the better - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3xyZd5NjJZmN7WztP96vCG/contact-us This situation has come about because people were made to be afraid and hide their opinions, this is a chance to keep the ball rolling

I'm in tears to this

Jo, I salute you. This interview brought me to tears.

I'm just in awe of all these incredible women who are strong and brave enough to bring these actions and make it count.

We are all standing on your shoulders. In your debt forever.

So glad Emma has said let's come back to this re prisons. I hope that happens

Jo, you are such a hero. I know this has crushed you and I'm so angry they did that and made you go through this.

I really hope this adds to the growing awareness that they need to get a grip on this institutional capture and misogynistic witch hunting.

The comment at the end of the woman with the ‘trans kid’ (of course she has) was a bit of a concern.

She works with kids huh? Telling them not to listen to all the nasty people, basically promoting the myth that they are at risk of violence, help them see safe… etc etc etc. yeah. Shouldn’t be near kids.

I've emailed Woman's Hour, thanked them for a great interview.
But also drew comparisons with attitudes at the OU and attitudes that seem to exist at the BBC also which has lead to a lack of impartiality or just ignoring the issues. Drew their attention to the Rape Crisis Edinburgh case too. And added they might find the courage to interview Helen Joyce as well! Always worth doing, even if you feel fobbed off, they read them. The more people contact them the better.