Non binary Teacher year 4

[1982mommaof4]

Okay not sure if it's me being sensitive...
My daughter is in year 4 juniors and she has a new teacher who identifies as Non binary and has made the class aware of this. She likes this teacher which is great. However, my DD now has questions that to be honest I don't want to answer.
One being do they( daughters words)have what I have or my brother has because they look like a girl but aren't.

Does that mean that some girls aren't girls...

How would you answer these questions, I'm trying to be sensitive and not offensive but I'm finding difficult to not be brutally honest in what I think.

Are people still pretending the concept of genitalia to determine sex is somehow pervy?

Will we get 'genital inspection' outrage next? I bet that gets typed with one hand a lot!

If I stand in front of the mirror and say genitals three times will I disappear in a puff of smoke?

I hope you get some good ideas here, OP. I like the one you liked.

And when she's older, you can explain to your daughter that it's much better to address sexism, than subscribe to an ideology that studiously ignores it, or actively promotes it.

I'd use it as an opportunity to talk about the patriarchy and why some women would want to identify out of being women..

It's actually quite a good way in to discussing gender-as-social-construct as the teacher doesn't seem to be saying they're trans (ie have changed sex) so I'd be explaining that people are born female or male but that the world puts stereotypes on those and some people feel uncomfortable about this. And ask her what she thinks about girls who like stereotypically "boys" things, does that mean they aren't girls/can girls like/do anything, etc, etc. (I have a Y4 and these are the sorts of conversations we have)

Also curious as to how the teacher is addressed as usually it would be Miss/Sir and I'm not sure how that would work if they're a they/them.

Can some people not see the red flags flapping around teachers that obscure their sex?
My child did swimming lessons in year 4, if she came home and said a non-binary teacher was helping people in the changing room, I'd most certainly want to know if the teacher was male or female.

This

All this coy "Genitals? Ewww!" attitude makes a great loophole to be exploited by dangerous males.

Anyone who really wishes that humans didn't need to know what sex other humans are would do well to start with MEN. When you've ended male pattern violence against women and children come back to me with your "it's yucky to speculate on what's in somebody's pants".

Until then, I will prioritise children's safety over adults' feelings.

Why does it matter?

It would matter to me that my child is not being taught something that is not reality.

It would matter to me because of safeguarding (see above).

It would matter to me because I believe all ideologies should be kept out of schools apart from teaching them as examples of ideologies.

Rather than what they have in their pants.

I wouldn’t care about what’s in their pants, just what sex they are. HTH.

You could explain the teacher’s sex is female but their gender is non binary

Gender Identity is a belief system. I would have to explain it to my child that their teacher believes something that there is no evidence for.

which is why they want to be known as they, and that it’s important we respect people and what they want to be called.

I would explain (in an age appropriate way) that 3rd person pronouns are sex-based and they is used for plural or when you don’t know someone’s sex, and when my child was talking to me I would ask them to refer to the teacher as the sex they are. I would explain that pronouns being gender based is a recent ideological belief that is being imposed on us and demanded of us and it is not respectful to children to ask them to deny the reality they see with their own eyes.

You could also ask the teacher / school for advice on how to explain it so that you are consistent.

I would ask the teacher why her feelings trump reality and if she truly intends to gaslight a whole class of young children into believing she’s not a woman. My consistency would stem from grounding my child in reality that humans cannot change sex.

You could also explain it’s rude to speculate what genitals people have.

No. I would not. It’s not rude to wonder what sex a person is, and for a child, there are simple ways to understand this before they’re old enough to understand pelvis size and physiology.

I would just say that some people don't feel like a boy or girl so they refer to themselves as non-binary.

It's as simple as that.

The anger and disdain for another human being is really grim on this thread. While I agree that men are men and women are women, do we really have to be so vindictive in our language? And that some here would encourage their children to see their teacher as having a mental illness is awful.

Without a shadow of a doubt I'd be pulling my daughter out with immediate effect.

I would be pointing out you can only be “non binary” if there is a binary.

so this teacher believes that pink/dolls/dresses are for girls, and only girls. Boys must like football and fighting, and only boys.

that is the binary, neither can like something for the other.

the teacher wants to like both girl/boy things, which means they think they aren’t a boy or a girl. Because they think you can’t be a girl and do boy things, and vice versa.

then I’d be showing her some examples of male ballet dancers and female footballers to point out the ridiculousness. It doesn’t matter if you’re a boy or girl, you can like or do anything you want.

100% all of this.

As for the PP who suggested they’d be taking their daughter out of the school where presumably they are settled and have made friends…. Absolutely bonkers.

@NotBadConsidering the only reason I mentioned genitals was because the OP’s child asked the OP what their teacher had got.

You could also ask the teacher / school for advice on how to explain it so that you are consistent.

Nope. A teacher is trying to force children to take part in their pretence that they are a special type of human that is neither a man nor a woman. There's absolutely no need for parents to fall into line with how this teacher wants this explained.

You could also explain it’s rude to speculate what genitals people have.

This is only a matter of speculation because the teacher isn't being straightforwardly about what sex they are. The OP has a daughter who is using her critical thinking skills to wonder if this apparently third type of human has a third type of body.

That kind of curiosity is exactly what education should be encouraging. Unfortunately those who believe in gender identity ideology want critical thought shut down as rude.

Children ask questions so just answer them and be thankful that you and your children are in the right body and know that

Nobody is born in the wrong body 🙄 That’s also potentially offensive to people with disabilities, as my disabled friend pointed out.

OP, I’d just correctly sex the teacher to your DC and then explain they obviously have old-fashioned, conservative views about gender stereotypes, thinking that there are girls things and boys things, etc, etc, but that we and most people know that girls can have short hair, be pilots, like computers, etc and boys can wear make up, have long hair, like cooking, etc etc. Then say that everything should be treated kindly and if teacher has been asked to be called Mx Bloggs, we should do that for their sake but it doesn’t change the fact they’re [insert sex].

My major concern here would be indoctrination of the pupils with gender ideology, whether directly or indirectly. Even if the teacher is careful not to bring the subject up, children might ask questions which the teacher answers in a way that promotes that ideology.

Posters have described it as ridiculous or silly. So why are we insisting that a child goes along with something, to be polite, when it's factually incorrect, and can't be.

If Government insisted we all start saying that black is white, and day is night, we would object.

the only reason I mentioned genitals was because the OP’s child asked the OP what their teacher had got.

Because this is simple for children. They don’t understand gametes, or chromosomes. It’s a simple statement. “She’s a girl like me because….” at a child like level. It’s not “speculating on genital configuration”.

I am rather torn about this. My first instinct on reading the OP was bollocks to that, I'd be complaining to the head. But I suppose, on reflection, it is an opportunity to teach tolerance of different beliefs, even those we disagree with.

I received an email from DS's school recently asking about whether he would be participating in the classes preparing for first communion (we are in Ireland). I just answered no, we are not a church going family, but DS saw the email and knew about the class, so wanted to know what it was about (he is autistic and is at a special school, he doesn't have much of an understanding of religion and we are atheists). So I could have a simple chat with him about how different people believe different things. I think I would be in agreement with the PPs who have advised this approach here.

Despite my saying that, I would still feel personally uncomfortable about this teacher, I am afraid. Given the wider context of the "gender debate".

My daughter is aware that some people are born man/ women and then trans into women/ man. The part I struggle with is terms like Cis and Non binary, I do t want my daughter to think you can just opt out of male or female. It's just not true

I'd be totally honest. 'The teacher is a woman but doesn't want to be known as a woman. I think this is sad because it suggests she believes stereotypes about girls and boys are real. Girls and women can be and do and dress in any way and it doesn't make them any less a woman.' Then I'd make an appointment to discuss with the school how they are ensuring they aren't reinforcing gender stereotypes.

non binary is not covered

Some quite extreme reactions here.

i don’t see why you wouldn’t treat this any different from any other kind of belief e.g religious. You can still explain what you think is the truth while teaching empathy and understanding.

I would never dream of calling someone else’s belief “silly” when describing it to my child.

“Some people believe in God. Isn’t that silly!”

*You could also explain it’s rude to speculate what genitals people have.

No. I would not. It’s not rude to wonder what sex a person is*

Exactly this. Most of us meet/pass by dozens, if not hundreds of people a day just going about our normal business, going to work, shopping, walking down a street. Our brains register the people passing us as either male or female. It’s not consciously sexual; it’s totally subliminal and normal and what we’re wired to do as humans. Most people’s minds aren’t instantly picturing their actual genitals, but their sex.

Even very young babies, pre-language, can tell the difference between men and women; scientific research has shown this. Do all the ‘genital inspection’ brigade think they’re internally squealing ’ewwwwwww, genitals’ in the voice of a whining teenager?

It’s not about what you think is the truth. Believing you can change sex or be neither male or female is silly.

Surely you just answer this in an age-appropriate way.
‘Yes, the teacher is female biologically but prefers to be called Mx and they. Its not something I personally would do, but the most important thing for you is that they are a good teacher and you can get along well in class’.

My DS (now 13) has a girl in his class who now identifies as non-binary and changed her name last year. There was some discussion among him and his friends privately about what this actually meant, and you could see they were trying to make sense of it. But I just encouraged DS to be courteous and polite, and keeping his thoughts to yourself, as is appropriate in a classroom with peers.

I do feel sad that this is the way forward which some young women see today, though.

(in all the years my DC have had swimming lessons, there has never been a teacher helping the DC change, that has been the job of the parents).

This does matter as "non binary" women are getting mastectomies.

I'd be speaking to the school about it and making the point that it's a very difficult situation regarding the extreme body modifications these women are doing and if it sits right with them. It's a type of self harm as medically unnecessary.

It's also potentially ableist if a child with some speech and language difficulties is being made to use they them pronouns.

And yet here is someone else to thinks differently to you.

thinking there is a white bearded guy in the sky is also not truth. Its a belief. See how that works?

Given School trips like swimming are logistically organised around single sex needs it's very important to know if this teacher is male or female.

And for the girls likely too, incase they need to approach them in the playground when a little older due to needing help with a period.

I wouldn't just say believing in God was silly. I would point out that they are believing in something which there is no evidence for.

I don't think it's extreme to object to a teacher bringing their bizarre "non-binary" identity into the classroom and expecting children to use specific language to reinforce this identity.