Non binary Teacher year 4

[1982mommaof4]

Okay not sure if it's me being sensitive...
My daughter is in year 4 juniors and she has a new teacher who identifies as Non binary and has made the class aware of this. She likes this teacher which is great. However, my DD now has questions that to be honest I don't want to answer.
One being do they( daughters words)have what I have or my brother has because they look like a girl but aren't.

Does that mean that some girls aren't girls...

How would you answer these questions, I'm trying to be sensitive and not offensive but I'm finding difficult to not be brutally honest in what I think.

Teachers in year 4 will be doing times tables and comprehension and other topic work
during this, this teacher might ask to be referred to as Mx whatever. So the kids call them Mx
it really doesn’t have to be a massive deal unless you make it?
are you having the same worry about miss vs ms? Because that argument is also super complicated
just use their name and do the maths/English/science? Right?

Personally, I'd address it like I addressed religion recently...

"Some people believe different things and that's okay. Personally, I believe that there are only men and women, but other people think like your teacher, and some people think different to both of us... There are some people who think cauliflower is delicious (or cats are better than dogs, or some other variation to make the conversation less serious), can you believe that?! What matters if that we're respectful of other people and their choices and beliefs. So, if they've asked for you to call them then you do that. It doesn't mean you have to change what you think or believe, but it doesn't mean you have to tell them they're wrong either."

It is a simple fact that there are only men and women. That's not a belief in the slightest and it's not helpful to children to frame it as a matter of belief rather than fact.

She likes to be called ....
No need for more discussion. Keep it simple otherwise those questions will keep coming

As a trans person with school aged children, I've taken an open approach with them, for example - I tell them in a simple form how I feel about myself but they know that they are able to think and believe for themselves too. They know my sex is female but I feel male in my head, so I'd probably say something along those lines for a non binary person too, but maybe say they feel somewhere in between?

Hopefully it shouldn't be a problem if the teacher understands that pupils are at school to learn facts and not be swayed into any other mindset.

But just ignore the biology, right? How’s the teacher going to teach that? Like Creationists do?

biology doesn’t dictate our names or titles

im female - do my chromosomes tell you if im miss/ms/mx/mrs/dr/prof??

I never said it did🙄. But a teacher needs to teach facts. There are two sexes. How is the teacher going to teach without calling doubt on the facts? If the teacher wants to keep their ideological beliefs to themselves then it shouldn’t be a problem, but it sounds like she’s bringing her ideological beliefs to work.

Year 4 do pronouns in English. Good luck , teach.

Hopefully by the time OP's DC is an adult, this farcical nonsense will have been seen for the sexist nonsense it is, so it won't be an issue.

This is perfect, and thank you for sharing your own experience.

This!!!

This.

I think if a teacher wants to be non-binary or whatever they have to do that in their own time outside of school and not bring this into school

See how easy it is to call someone they? You literally just did it. Several times in one post.

Agree with the previous PP who said to treat people with compassion.

There is no need for a discussion / speculation on a teacher’s (or anyone’s) genitals.

Why does this teacher get to impose her religious beliefs on the children? Why do her beliefs get to override the various beliefs of the children's families?

This is not ok!

How can she require the use of gender identity language by children who may not be being brought up to believe in gender identity?

I have sat through a brilliant (deep, philosophical) key stage 2 lesson on atheism taught by an observant Muslim teacher to a class containing many faiths and none. So I know it is possible to be a brilliant teacher and explore beliefs that are not your own and sensitively bring together children from multiple backgrounds without any one position being prioritised over another.

@LentilFaculties you’ve contradicted yourself there. Surely you’ve just proven you can believe in something different and still have respectful conversations about it. So a teacher can identify as non binary and request ‘they’ pronouns while still then teaching about biological sexes? This isn’t prioritising one position over another.

See how easy it is to call someone they? You literally just did it. Several times in one post.

Only because it hasn’t been 100% confirmed the teacher is female. Given the OP’s daughter correctly sexed the teacher I think it’s likely she is, because somehow children can manage this innate ability and some grown ups seem to lose it and can’t possibly tell or speculate🙄.

There is no need for a discussion / speculation on a teacher’s (or anyone’s) genitals.

The teacher’s sex. The teacher’s sex is what matters.

It's not compassionate to teach children that humans change sex based upon regressive gender stereotypes though. In fact it undoes all the years of progress on "girls can play football too" and "boys can be gentle" etc.

It is not the children's job to validate the teacher's personal feelings on stereotypes. It will not harm the teacher to not impose their belief system on the children. Teaching young children carries a vast responsibility. Young children believe what adults tell them.

Edited to add: I see trying to obscure what sex an adult is around children as a massive safeguarding red flag actually. There's absolutely no suggestion that wishing to do this is inherent to a trans identity. Trans allies pushing views like this make trans people seem dangerous.

I would be tempted to go down the 'like religion' route.

Some people beloved in something called 'gender identity ' and they think they have a feeling of gender separate from their sex based body. A bit like some people are Muslims, some are Hindu, and some are Christian. I and most others don't believe that, I think people have their own personalities and interests and you can enjoy and be interested in whatever you want.

My dd (year 4) goes to a club where another girl 'is a boy'. I was blunt with her and told her that X is not a boy because she wasn't born a boy and doesn't have a penis. She probably wants to be a boy because boys get treated better in society, which sucks but it doesn't make her a boy. But when we see X we also don't want to be mean so we can secretly think this is all a bit silly but on the outside we need to call her a boy because we don't want to upset her.

I'd say the same about any religion too. "we don't believe in [deity] because they're not real but we need to be polite to people who do"

@NotBadConsidering Why does it matter? Surely it matters more that your teacher is good at educating, kind, nurturing and patient? Rather than what they have in their pants.

You could explain the teacher’s sex is female but their gender is non binary so they don’t see themselves as either a man or a woman which is why they want to be known as they, and that it’s important we respect people and what they want to be called.

You could also ask the teacher / school for advice on how to explain it so that you are consistent.

You could also explain it’s rude to speculate what genitals people have.

Because that makes the child think that gender is a 'thing' that they have to decide upon and choose a category (ironically non-binary becomes a category in this instance) and then rather than thinking "I'm tilly and I like a whole load of stuff" they think they need to be all "I'm tilly, I was 'assigned' female at birth by a draconian midwife but I like football so I'm a boy and want to now be called Tyler". Unnecessary.

Just a reminder to the genitally obsessed “oooooh but how can you tell if someone is male or female unless you see in their pants” that different genitals are only one of the physical differences between men and women

I’d do the religion thing

The dc should not be asked to use ‘they’ by an adult though