Why are women so complacent re. trans nonsense?

[JazbayGrapes]

I mean, outside GC or radfem circles, i have heard some of the most outrageous things, coming not from the loony left, but seeming well-meaning, semi-conservative women. Like "What is your problem? Can't you just #BeKind?"

1. Re. sports: "A lesson in inclusion and acceptance for a girl is much more valuable than any trophy. Or maybe your daughter should train harder."

2. Re. prisons: "That's easy - don't break the law and you'll have nothing to worry about."

3. Re. homeless shelters: "Imagine being so ungrateful for a roof over your head that you would complaint about trans."

4)Re. public toilets/showers/changing rooms: "If you are such a prude to undress in front of male genitalia, them maybe you should stay home and never go to gyms or swimming pools or etc."

I'm a a loss...

I said in my original post that separate rooms would need to be provided to manage the risk appropriately and couldn't understand why that was insufficient for the other poster re: safeguarding. I was unclear from the other posters comments that gguk isn't providing this which seems strange because I don't know of another Youth organisation that wouldn't support separate bedrooms in this instance to protect all involved including young people who may use binders and need time without them for example. It seems short sighted as an organisational standpoint.

Yes, that's the problem with Girl guiding. Rather than acknowledging and dealing with the issue, they have gone for shooting the messenger and denying any difference between girls and transgirls. Chumps.

We know that girls benefit from girls only spaces and that it is being male which tends to go hand in hand with behaviours that silence girls so there is no place for a male of any identity in a female organisation as fsr as I'm concerned. There should be some mixed sex options for those who want them but it's revolting for an organisation to pretend to be female only.

It seems short sighted as an organisational standpoint

quote of the month.

NOW you see why I’m so fucking cross. #lashingsoflemonadesadface

My OH would never hurt a woman so shall we let him into women's spaces? is it OK for men to self select as not a danger?

//

I too would be interested in the answer to this

And is it ok for more naive, uninformed women to do the risk assessment for their "lovely" male friends on all our behalf?

Does anyone remember the names of the guide leaders who tried to stand up to GGUK about this?

i wanted to post a link

Katie Alcock and Helen Watts.

fairplayforwomen.com/helen-watts/

www.girlguiding.org.uk/about-us/press-releases/girlguiding-settlement-statement/

Helen Watts is one. Trying to find the other.

.be

FFS that Eresh beat me to it again.

thank you!

(edit to add) both of you

They are applying to girl guiding because they are trans and as per the organisational stance fit the bill to be there as they are living their life as a female child. So refusing to work with them is because they are trans. They wouldn't be asking to use the service in the first place if they weren't

What does 'living their life as a female child' mean? IME it meant puberty, periods, navigating sexism and harmful gendered stereotypes.

What effect does it have on girls, do you think, to tell them that if a boy has long hair and wears make up and a skirt he is 'living his life as a female child'?

When it comes to children who ID as trans there are very clear differences between those who are female and ID as boys/bois/nonbinary/whatever and those who are male and ID as girls/whatever. Different needs. Different risks. Different sexes.

Yes, I think you initially missed the crucial point here Lavender, that GGUK was (is) insisting that young males who say they’re girls “ARE” girls and should be treated as if they were female in every respect including sharing sleeping accommodation and washing facilities with the actual girls.

And that even raising that as an issue would be horrifically transphobic, wanting to advise the girls or their parents unforgivably so.

Again and again and again the point is not that these young people are trans but that they're male.

And everybody is supposed to collude with the pretence that they’re not.

Short sighted is one way of putting it, for sure.

If it were just the horrifically regressive and sexist notion that likening pink and dresses is what makes you a girl/woman. Then I’d stay and fight that from within the organisation.

but safeguarding. And for that reason, I’m out.

Where do the transwomen go, because they can't go with the men?

Why not though? Why can't the men 'be kind' and make space for all the men with a 'gender identity'?

What needs to happen is the clear distinction of sex and 'gender' and that a person's personal presentation or claims of a gender identity does not entitle them to things specifically for the opposite sex.
No one should be forced to go along with gender identity ideology.

I give no shits if a man wants to wear a dress or make up. I give a shit if he demands that his appearance or his feelings somehow make him any type of woman and that this should be written into law to force women to comply with his sexist idea of womanhood.

This new batshit of pretending men have no sporting advantage or men are suddenly harmless if they claim to be women and no one would possibly take advantage, and the blatant removal of female sex based protections to accommodate men's feelings is just fucking absurd.

How can people not see the misogyny in men redefining our actual sex class?
Men once again telling us what a woman is based on sexist stereotypes.
The oppressor has all the power. Women no longer allowed to define woman without 'including' men.

How can people not see the utter homophobia in a man claiming to be a lesbian?

How can people go along with the nonsense that some men are 'oppressed' by not having access to women's spaces and sports, or because they want to perform feminine stereotypes?

Equal and interlinked: tribalism; a general preference for emotion over intellectual rigour; and therefore individual 'stories' over population-level principles; the mental health crisis. Those things bolstered by the desperate capitalism of trying to find or create new markets who will want to consume to show how well they fit in. Bolstered too by social media obviously, and the power of advertising and corporate tickboxing for 'social responsibility'.
And aside from the obvious danger - to women's rights - there's the insidious danger of the misuse of language. If someone whose sense of self is interwoven with left-wing principles, is told they're a 'fascist', it's even harder to go against the grain.
It's the modern equivalent of 60s 'reds under the bed' or 80s 'loonie lefties' to shut down debate.

I don't think it's right to use this kind of emotional blackmail against women. It's how we are where we are.

Why not though? Why can't the men 'be kind' and make space for all the men with a 'gender identity'?

Quite. Women aren't -

Human shields
Support humans
Non Player Characters
Everyone's Mum

This new batshit of pretending men have no sporting advantage or men are suddenly harmless if they claim to be women and no one would possibly take advantage, and the blatant removal of female sex based protections to accommodate men's feelings is just fucking absurd.

It was the sporting aspect that first pulled me properly into this debate. There are still morons, despite all the readily available peer reviewed evidence, that think men have no physical advantage or that if there is it can be mitigated against by suppressing testosterone levels. Let's ignore the height, reach, grip strength, larger cardio vascular systems, muscle mass etc and instead focus on the hurt feelings of some man who wants to be his authentic self. All the women down my club, old and young, were bloody furious with the governing body's 'trans inclusive' stance and they eventually changed it after much lobbying. Women's sports being treated as a vehicle for affirmation or as an opportunity for middleaged average male athletes to be competitive against women half their age is a disgrace. And that is just the fairness aspect before we even address changing rooms and safeguarding.

TheCadoganArms · Today 15:27

It was the sporting aspect that first pulled me properly into this debate.

Likewise; I was trying to find ways to get my then 5 year old daughter into sports and got lots of:

"Don't bother, Rachel McKinnon."

I was completely boggled and went down a internet rabbit hole and saw the rest of it.

That’s fine as long as you know that means trans men will be accessing women’s toilets.

Yes, biological women in women's toilets. We do understand that. Figured it out all by ourselves, too.

Trans men are women so that’s fine @pointbreak77