Another GC employment tribunal. Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #2

[nauticant]

Claiming constructive dismissal for GC beliefs.

ERCC CEO is a well known transwoman know for controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There was live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
R or ERCC: the Respondent, Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024
[more to follow]

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis

@hedgehog @Froodwithatowel That makes IamSarah's case so important because she is a service user who was pressured to share with a male and refused a single-sex service.

I can see that tackling MW head-on is likely to be a non-starter. But I'm starting to wonder about golden bridges already. Maybe of this case goes badly for ERCC then Beira's Place could offer SRC/ERCC management and board some training - they surely need it! Or maybe HEAL which absolutely does centre service users. I learned a heck of a lot about women's needs and gender reassignment needs and how to (safely) balance women's needs with male needs by the time I got to the end of their report.

We cannot function as a society like this. It's unsustainable.

I wonder if this helps @IamSarah in her case? Scottish rape crisis have come out and said the support should be based on what the survivor needs and I expect English rape crisis may do the same.

Shoot me. Shoot me now!

its a good job I don't have to work anymore as I have zero capacity for that sort of shit in meetings!

I very much hope that it will! Getting these organisations to say it and say it loud surely must help.

"Don't speak, because if you do you will upset me and that isn't ok because you are mocking my disability."

Way to go on how to silence whilst grifting.

It is impossible to hold people to account for any type of problem with bullshit like that.

It's a recipe for scandals and abuse.

All of that is true. Although unworthily, must admit my first thought was how utterly fucking tedious it sounded.

"Don't speak, because if you do you will upset me and that isn't ok because you are mocking my disability."

It does hamper discussion because even now, I'm uncomfortable with that description despite the accuracy of the implicit framing and instructions. That, plus the constant need to check the pronouns before mentioning someone is a deterrent to free-flowing participation.

There are also the usual opening remarks about civility and mutual respect when it's notable that some people are implicitly exempted from it, "Because…" Plus, the increasing # of "housekeeping" that actually reminds "articulate people that other attendees find their fluency and ability to articulate intimidating so you should be mindful of that". I've checked several times if they mean "articulate" or "frequent/dominant/overbearing" but they insist they mean "articulate". The people in the "Because…" class can undermine and speak over others, because…

That, and the idea that people are monitoring what you say for offence rather than topic content. Always looking for an opportunity to be more inclusive than others or point out wrongthink.

I can't wait to retire.

I don't mean this as a [merail] but as a reflection on the state of some charities and voluntary organisations in the benighted third sector. (And it isn't even my sector, I just interact a lot because my sector is healthcare.)

How on earth have they got away with this?

"balance the rights of female survivors with the employment rights of men with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment"

WTF do they think a rape crisis center is for?

Showcasing their inclusivity by the sound of it.

For furthering a male-centric political agenda, in a nutshell.

We have seen this repeatedly, from the days of a young male gaining a 'women's officer' post and then being immediately clear that any issues that were not shared in by him could not be women's issues because it excluded him from womanhood. And then refusing to discuss or represent women on those issues.

In essence, these posts are desired and captured a) for personal agenda and the meeting of personal needs and b) to intentionally remove the focus from women as evil and wrong, and refocus it on centering the politics of righteousness.

And it is that zealotic and devoid of conscience, this is sadly not an exaggeration. The people in the captured service are openly spoken of as no more than tools or resources, they are mostly there to serve the needs of the employed, and those who will not serve the cause are ejected and left without services without concern.

We have seen this repeatedly, from the days of a young male gaining a 'women's officer' post and then being immediately clear that any issues that were not shared in by him could not be women's issues because it excluded him from women's issues. And then refusing to discuss or represent women on those issues.

This exactly, and also Munroe Bergdorf proclaiming that feminism was transphobic and that on the Women's March where MB was a speaker women shouldn't centre their reproductive issues.

Essentially that women must 'learn' (be made to) change womanhood to a mixed sex only version, for the benefit of men. Who will be leading this womanhood and women's world.

What is really scary though, is not that narcissistic men are doing this (of course they centre themselves, that's what they do) but that they have been allowed to get away with it, that society, law, government, HR policies have been refactored to enable this.

In my head I always read the first name with a JKR connection. Like Tom Riddle's father....MrIdal. That's not me being terfy, that's just how it looks.

Bloody hell, meetings nowadays. Thanks goodness I never have to attend one. Sprained eyes and badly bitten tongue. I'd be lucky to leave with a job.

"balance the rights of female survivors with the employment rights of men with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment"

Is this referring to transwomen or transmen?
Sick of this doublespeak.

Except there is a legal exception for single sex provision which means they don't have to do this in certain settings. And they can do this legally

Yes Red. If it's men (transwomen) whose rights must be balanced then the exception already applies. So do they mean transmen, ie women?

what happens to men who have been raped? can they be guaranteed to speak to a man (and not a man larping as a woman, or a male born NB person?)

From what I've heard, male rape victims also often request a female counsellor. I imagine this is due to the sex of rapists.

Although I have recently heard that men have been complaining because there are so few male GPs available, and some prefer a male.

I remember the impossibility of seeing a female GP (consequence of the quota system restricting the number of women who could go to medical school or similar - I think this was until 1979) for a fair amount of my early life.

It's probably one of the reasons my mother's health complaints were endlessly misdiagnosed as nervous indigestion and anxiety (contributed to her early demise from colon cancer).

But that just highlights that the needs of men are different to women. Its not appropriate for women's services to be alongside men's services, but mens needs are not the same as women's needs...

I think it would be great if the lovely folk here all looked at the women’s services in their area to see if they are in fact biological women only.

I already did this i think early last year, in an effort to find a woman in crisis a place to go.

The problem is if they reply yeah course we are women only, you then have to ask if any of those women are men.
It is far from easy to get them to admit they allow men in, when they think men with lady feels are women.

Or they dont answer, and you take from that what you want.

This.

I am absolutely for the meeting of the needs of the whole diverse sex class of men. Of high quality rape support services for men of all chosen identities, however they need in order for this to be accessible to them. They just cannot remove accessibility from women or use them as a resource in the process.

No using and reforming women's services so that they better meet male needs, and we'll all be fine. And no confusing male people with TQ+ identities with biologically female women when it comes to the meeting of female people's needs. Regardless of how sad this may make male people.