Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another GC employment tribunal. Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #2

995 replies

nauticant · 19/01/2024 12:59

Claiming constructive dismissal for GC beliefs.

ERCC CEO is a well known transwoman know for controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There was live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
R or ERCC: the Respondent, Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024
[more to follow]

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis

OP posts:
Thread gallery
42
Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/01/2024 10:54

Isn't Wadwha still there, though? The LinkedIn dates of 2018-21 imply not, unless I've misread.

At Forth Valley?

LoobiJee · 20/01/2024 10:54

Can anyone tell me if MW was appointed to the CEO role before RA was employed by ERCC or after? I got the impression from tribunal tweets that RA was already at ERCC, and then when MW got the CEO role there was a certain amount of public debate about a male person without a GRC (= information in the public domain about MW) taking a role that had been advertised as for a woman, based on the SSE in EA2010.

It seems to me to be entirely legitimate that an employee in a (supposed to be) women’s service, which switches from only employing women to employing a male in the most senior role, to ask management for an explanation of/ guidance on what is to be said to service users about whether an employee who’s going to be dealing with them is a woman or male.

The overriding impression I got from reading the threadreader was that, in its approach to this whole situation and in particular the disciplinary, the ERCC combined being self-righteous and disingenuous with being clueless and shambolic. I couldn’t believe what I was reading when unremunerated volunteer trustee MR said the delay in producing the record of the three and a half hour disciplinary panel (3.5hrs!) was because she typed up the audio recording herself in any spare time around caring for her disabled adult son. What kind of an organisation thinks it’s ok for its trustees to serve as an unpaid audio typist? I know MR said using a transcription service simply didn’t occur to her, but still.

They incorrectly accused RA of a data breach. An internal email, for a legitimate purpose, with people who have already had that information disclosed to them is not a disclosure.

But then the accusation changes to bullying and harassment on the basis that i) a female individual working in a women’s service decides they wish to no longer be considered a woman, and wish to be considered neither a woman nor a man: ii) they change their name to a name commonly associated with men; iii) they want their colleagues to refer to them by their new name but don’t want that name change/new name to be discussed with them; and therefore… iv) that background context evidently means that a colleague who needs clarification about what answer she should give in response to a service user’s enquiry about the male-coded-name-change co-worker’s biological sex should jolly well know better than to have the common courtesy of giving their male-coded-name-change co-worker the opportunity to say for themselves how they would prefer that question to be answered.

If the male-coded-name-change co-worker’s mental health is so fragile they can’t deal with that question, they are unlikely to be able to provide survivors with the support they need.

More fundamentally, am I the only one taken aback that in a therapy service of all places the first course of action was not, as you would expect, to go down the mediation route in order to support co-workers to resolve the hurt feeling and misunderstanding so that they can work effectively together, but instead to go straight to a disciplinary?

Another observation is that it’s another example of so called “safe space” training sessions being used to compile evidence of wrongthink against disapproved-of colleagues. To be fair to unremunerated volunteer trustee MR, she appears to have been the one who, quite rightly, set aside the allegations relating to safe space discussions.

Sorry for the long post, it’s taken me ages to catch up with the thread. And I see there’s been ten new posts since I started this.

Datun · 20/01/2024 10:55

LaviniasBigBloomers · 20/01/2024 10:30

All women's organisations in Scotland 'support' self ID. It is a core requirement to get funding from Scot Gov. To repeat: women's sector orgs in Scotland will not receive Scottish government funding unless they are fully trans inclusive. A large part of any funding application is spent evidencing this.

Could fully trans inclusive mean they go in through a different door, and are seen separately to the women, so the women and the men never cross paths? Likewise with counsellors.

Or does it have to mean that basically men are interchangeable with women, if they say so.

i'm sure no-one wants men, or men who identify as women, to have no provision.

Just that raped and traumatised women should not be used to validate men's feelings or fetishes.

I'm assuming it's the 'interchangeable' one, but I thought I'd just check...

Rightsraptor · 20/01/2024 10:55

And if we pull all that digging together, Eresh, that's going to make one damaging doc that surely even the most woke-soaked would have a problem dismissing.

FigRollsAlly · 20/01/2024 10:56

Just catching up and want to say thanks to TT and everyone on here for the reporting and commentary. Roz comes across as the sort of woman we all aspire to be and I’m so glad rape survivors in Edinburgh can still access her experience and compassion via Beira’s Place.

RedToothBrush · 20/01/2024 10:56

LaviniasBigBloomers · 20/01/2024 10:51

@RedToothBrush's point about the grapevine is a good one and a decent charity will work very hard to find Trustees that haven't come from 'the pool' - ie former workers, workers from aligned charities, 'people we know'. This is really hard though and takes time, effort and money. Everyone knows everyone in Scotland and in Edinburgh, everyone REALLY knows everyone.

TBF in DHs case he's actually a good example of someone in the loop but far enough out of the loop to be independent enough.

But in a lot of cases it won't be - you'll just get the person running the charity to tap up their mates who they KNOW all think the same and won't ask difficult questions. It's clique stuff - if your face doesn't fit or you have a reputation for rocking the boat, within certain circles you might find yourself deliberately shut out too.

I have to say the age gap between MW and the majority of the trustees in itself makes me wonder about power imbalances there.

Rainbowshit · 20/01/2024 10:58

ditto finance (women who will volunteer for finance roles are rarer than hen's teeth).

Hmm, interesting, I head up a finance team, I have extensive volunteering experience, although in sports and running sports clubs.

Something to consider...

Chrysanthemum5 · 20/01/2024 11:03

@Rainbowshit with that background a charity would love to have you! Keeping on top of the finances and ensuring the charity is an ongoing concern is top priority. As trustees you always need to ensure there is enough money to close the charity without going bankrupt.

Speaking of which I wonder how much this tribunal is costing them?

LaviniasBigBloomers · 20/01/2024 11:06

Rainbowshit · 20/01/2024 10:58

ditto finance (women who will volunteer for finance roles are rarer than hen's teeth).

Hmm, interesting, I head up a finance team, I have extensive volunteering experience, although in sports and running sports clubs.

Something to consider...

Aside from all this shite @Rainbowshit there are lots of amazing charities out there who would absolutely snap up your expertise, please do consider it Flowers

Rainbowshit · 20/01/2024 11:09

Chrysanthemum5 · 20/01/2024 11:03

@Rainbowshit with that background a charity would love to have you! Keeping on top of the finances and ensuring the charity is an ongoing concern is top priority. As trustees you always need to ensure there is enough money to close the charity without going bankrupt.

Speaking of which I wonder how much this tribunal is costing them?

My job is literally to keep the company solvent and make sure we meet all regulatory requirements

Seriously considering getting involved. DH will go nuts though. 😂

Karensalright · 20/01/2024 11:09

Yes everybody go volunteer in women’s services!

Worked in the DV and RC sector in various roles including trustee for many years. My last role being a CEO.

Trustees i sought for were to balance political leanings, left/right/none, minority groups, gay, ethnicity, religion, different sectors, public, private self employed voluntary sector, even got a magistrate and solicitor.

Oh and ex service users of course. Would be looking for GC representation now, for sure….

Caused lots of lively debate, and led to well balance policy decisions.

Was not hard to find them once i started looking.

DerekFaker · 20/01/2024 11:09

Statement from RCS at last.

https://www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/news/news/our-statement-on-the-ongoing-employment-tribunal-concerning-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre/

Our statement on the ongoing employment tribunal concerning Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre
POSTED ON JANUARY 19 2024 AT 08:07

As a national organisation working to end sexual violence, Rape Crisis Scotland works with a network of 17 member Rape Crisis Centres across Scotland. Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre is an autonomous member centre and as such, Rape Crisis Scotland was not involved in any of the circumstances leading to the tribunal.

Rape Crisis support services should be survivor centred, trauma informed and meet survivors where their needs are. All Rape Crisis Centres in Scotland are signed up to working within UK-wide national services standards. These set out that every Centre must provide and protect dedicated women only spaces. These standards also require Rape Crisis Centres to ensure that their services are informed by the needs of service users, with each service user being an active partner in the support they receive.

These standards aim to ensure that service users are enabled to make their own choices about the support they receive and who provides it. Rape Crisis Centres should always seek explicit and informed consent from service users, and work with them to develop individual support plans that are flexible and tailored to their specific needs.

News | Our statement on the ongoing employment tribunal concerning Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre

https://www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/news/news/our-statement-on-the-ongoing-employment-tribunal-concerning-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/01/2024 11:11

Yes it's upthread, together with the observation that RCS seem to be speaking out of both sides of their mouth as they are fully paid up TWAW. See the letter posted below.

LaviniasBigBloomers · 20/01/2024 11:13

I'm struggling to interpret that twitter thread on their trustees - can't actually see anything wrong in a cluster of recruitment, ie two trustees recruited every year for three years suggests to me they had a spate of trustees coming to the end of their terms (2 x 3 year terms very common). Is there anything on how long people stay for rather than just recruitment pattern?

Froodwithatowel · 20/01/2024 11:14

By 'women only' - females plus any male who wishes to use the word.

And we all know whose trauma will take precedence and whose trauma won't matter.

Desperate attempt to distance themselves as the fan starts to spin.

Justabaker · 20/01/2024 11:18

Rainbowshit · 20/01/2024 10:40

How does one become a trustee of a charity?

Miss Piggy Eating GIF by Muppet Wiki

They should advertise the role, have a role specification, criteria, an interview process and documented evaluation of candidates.
What likely happens is that they invite like minded people onto the carousel. The true goal is often to leverage the 'entry' role to progressively more prestigious and high profile roles and eventually into the paid and political roles.
In other words - to line up at the trough with the rest of them.

Chrysanthemum5 · 20/01/2024 11:20

@Justabaker that is definitely true for some (we had trustees leaving when funding got tough in Covid as they said the charity wasn't doing well enough to be useful to them!) but not the majority. The trustees I know all give lots of time freely to charities they believe in

popebishop · 20/01/2024 11:22

LoobiJee · 20/01/2024 09:09

What makes a good trustee:
Trustees have expert knowledge
- experts in their field
- have relevant industry experience
- may have been trustees before,
- held prominent positions in the charitable sector,
- worked in the field.
- well recognised in their profession “

Four ERCC’s trustees are age 25 and under.

Occupations: include: student sabbatical officer; democracy assistant.

Bloody hell!

Floisme · 20/01/2024 11:28

I've looked at adverts for trustees before but always decided I didn't have the right experience. I'm 67. Oh for the confidence of a 25 year-old.

And thank you for this thread.

popebishop · 20/01/2024 11:29

Just generally, the gall to keep calling this email a data breach when Mermaids publicly hosting all their confidential emails about their trans child clients in a publicly searchable space was handwaved away.

With details that shouldn't have been discussed by email anyway.

RethinkingLife · 20/01/2024 11:35

Rainbowshit · 20/01/2024 10:40

How does one become a trustee of a charity?

I know some people are appointed by friends and from inner circles.

However, in places like the Guardian or specialist agencies you'll see vacancies advertised. They're unpaid posts (expenses reimbursed) and can carry a lot of responsibility.

https://trustees-unlimited.co.uk/roles/

Caveat to non-payment here as trustees can be paid for goods and services.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/trustee-expenses-and-payments-cc11/trustee-expenses-and-payments#:~:text=Charities%20have%20a%20statutory%20power,prohibits%20this%20type%20of%20payment.

PS: sorry, got distracted while writing, forgot to check for more posts and didn't notice PPs had answered.

Vacancies | Trustees Unlimited

https://trustees-unlimited.co.uk/roles

Justabaker · 20/01/2024 11:39

LaviniasBigBloomers · 20/01/2024 11:13

I'm struggling to interpret that twitter thread on their trustees - can't actually see anything wrong in a cluster of recruitment, ie two trustees recruited every year for three years suggests to me they had a spate of trustees coming to the end of their terms (2 x 3 year terms very common). Is there anything on how long people stay for rather than just recruitment pattern?

Hi - that's my thread. As someone who has been both a charity and a public company director; it's the cumulative impact of all of those things in a single group of trustees:

  • youth
  • underwhelming expertise and employment qualifications
  • no long serving trustees (reappointment is standard especially in small charities 2 or even 3 terms would not be unusual)
  • no other trustee or nonexec roles
  • dominant chief executive who is also the company secretary
Cannot make a categoric statement but its a cluster of signs pointing to a poor governance outcome.

A point on company secretary: it is common to use a paid company secretary in many charities etc. They are properly insured and their job is to keep the governing body legal: agenda, minutes, declaration of interests, the list goes on. To have it be the chief executive points, in combination with the attributes of the current trustee pool - smells like avoidance of scrutiny.

Rainbowshit · 20/01/2024 11:42

popebishop · 20/01/2024 11:29

Just generally, the gall to keep calling this email a data breach when Mermaids publicly hosting all their confidential emails about their trans child clients in a publicly searchable space was handwaved away.

With details that shouldn't have been discussed by email anyway.

When accessing counselling I've always been told the sex of the counsellor it's normal and standard.

Madcats · 20/01/2024 11:53

I've just handed over the reins as Treasurer at a similar sized charity (Rainbow, do consider volunteering). ICAEW (Chartered accts) has a volunteer section where members can advertise for free and sign up to email alerts.

I thought the Board turnover unusual, ditto the ages.

When we recruit (formal interview by two Trustees, meeting CEO and Ops manager to find out about the charity, informal chat over coffee with another trustee to rubber-stamp and attendance as an observer at a Board meeting before joining the Board) we have an expectation that Trustees will commit to a 6 year term. Very occasionally somebody might have to stand down because of illness/new work commitments.

There is an expectation that people bring experience to the table and have oversight of a particular aspect of the charity (e.g. HR and staff development, finance, PR, fundraising, governance) so that we can understand the issues and suggest solutions but not to get involved with day to day management of the charity. Most either have or have had a senior management role in their day job.

I'm struggling to understand the value added by being a Board member for <12 months. It feels like a waste of time for the Trustee and the CEO.