Jane Clare Jones on purity spirals

[IamSarah]

Really insightful post on X the platform formally known as Twitter I feel it's worth sharing on here:

x.com/janeclarejones/status/1745760345954689255?s=46&t=NGJBRqkXgp1UazF5I8yjXA

So in the eyes of a Brighton feminist group, Went is not an AGP? Is that what you are saying?

And if so, based on what? The individuals say so?

Again, can you be very specific about all the lies you are accusing her of please?

Platforming is not true.

KJW was a guest who bought a ticket, not a speaker.

All guests were equal.

Are you saying that you can ‘arrange’ for the sin page to come down? Is that what this post refers to?

Are you fucking serious? After all this time? After so many women have told you and your group how fucking offensive and hypocritical it is, you say that your group might take down the sin page if the woman the sin page has vilified apologises?

This is the most serious lie. Smearing Rise, an incredible charity that does amazing work for domestic violence survivors. It does not recognise men as women.

As I said last night, members of your group have accused KJK of ‘platforming’ others when they simply fucking turn up to an event and not even speak.

Your group has supported her vilification and some members actively participated in it from what I remember, for her being in photos posted by the person who took a selfie with her that she had no control over being posted. Yet your group is complaining of ‘pile ins’ about a photo published calling a male who harms women an ‘esteemed guest’.

So, please tell us what definition of ‘platforming’ your group is using this week?

Has the hypocrisy sunk in yet?

I'm not discussing it anymore. I don't want a truce. I don't want anyone to like me. I'm not asking for support or donations. Please just stop lying and undermining our work.

Did it at one point?

Have you as a mature adult asked her to clarify and point out if she is in error? Have you asked for an apology to be issued to Rise?

Have you? And has she refused?

Are you now telling us that the sin page will stay despite so many of us telling you how offensive it is?

Are you denying that members of your group are very vocal on a facebook page that has vilified Kellie Jay Keen and other women?

Or are you now understanding that the ‘undermining’ is coming from within your own group?

Have you as a mature adult asked her to clarify and point out if she is in error? Have you asked for an apology to be issued to Rise?* Have you? And has she refused?*

Yes, as have many others. It's all there on Twitter for anyone to see.

So your group hasn’t reached out and maturely asked KJK to clarify about Rise, to then correct her misunderstanding and ask for an apology?

Of course we have. The polite pointing out of all the factual inaccuracies are all there on Twitter.

Thank you for responding. Let me revise my question.

So has someone calmly written to her away from Twitter or picked up the phone and talked to her, given her correct information and she has refused?

Or has members of the group responsible for vilifying her tweeted at her or tweeted around her and expects that is sufficient, she ignored them and so can go on vilifying her?

Because looking at that screenshot, it looks like she is very open to being told that Rise doesn’t house women with male people who declare they are female. But that is my opinion, and you might have had someone actually talk to her and been refused. Is this the case?

But the Brighton spite page predates last week by absolutely ages, so Brighton should delete first. And apologise.
https://savageminds.substack.com/p/anatomy-of-the-near-murder-of-kellie

Do you think that Twitter posting means that she will see it? Who has told her she is wrong? Someone who she has muted or blocked?

Do you see you see this as important enough to demand an apology, yet your group seem to want to resolve it through Twitter? Not through personal contact and direct communication away from the public view. If your group has not taken this off line and addressed it, it could be said that your group simply wishes to continue to vilify her.

By adding it to her list of published sins?

Again, you talk about undermining. I suggest your group needs to consider whether people from outside your group and are not mates consider what your group has done (through all the various channels of the group’s site, the Facebook group, the social media posts and there leadership in other groups who have then continued it) and whether your group has been doing the undermining. Before continuing with accusations of undermining your groups efforts.

As I said last night, members of your group have accused KJK of ‘platforming’ others when they simply fucking turn up to an event and not even speak.

This. KJK is constantly criticised and smeared for being in the same physical place at the same time as people who are not friends of women. But when a known AGP is publicly called 'esteemed guest' by your group, you say

Please just stop lying and undermining our work.

Either everyone should be judged because of the people who are in the same place as them, or no one should. You can't criticise KJK for being seen with the wrong people, then complain when the same thing happens to you.

Why did you make this thread?

If JCJ actually wants to rebuild her long-burned bridges (rather than publish a word salad that sort of looks like an apology until you read it properly, and then it’s just more of the same nasty accusations) can’t she make a post here herself?

Your case is important but you are still behaving like the TRA you started out as.

Like several other women, the first time I ever spoke out in public, to an audience, was at the Brighton event.

I was very proud of that. But then a lot of my pleasure was spoiled by the stream of attacks on the topic by Brighton feminists. They could have focused on the TRA woman who screamed abuse at the baby, or the smoke bomb throwers, but they went for KJK instead, which then felt like an attack on all of us who participated.

I got over it, because I had a lot of supportive women around who could put it in perspective, & I’ve got a terrific photo on my wall of myself speaking. But it was bloody unfair on women who might have been putting their toe in the water for the first time.

Another Brighton feminist had a massive go at me because I went to Posie’s Christmas party a few years ago - great night - & wasn’t sufficiently concerned about who else had bought a ticket.

(edited for typo)

I have said before that I suspect you are in a difficult position. However, telling us that we are undermining your group when we are so loudly and clearly saying there is rank hypocrisy here in this thread from Jane considering your group’s past actions is just continuing the undermining that I consider your group to be be doing since the Brighton Let women speak event and maybe earlier.

I am going to leave you to it. I cannot be any more plain speaking than I have. If your group cannot evaluate its own actions and see the hypocrisy of those actions while continuing to attempt to demonise others and to denigrate the women who have supported them, then this reaction will continue to cycle.

I wonder if it would be an act of authentic grace for the page to be removed without conditionality.

I think it would.

Also a recognition that if anyone can buy a ticket to a Sisters Salon event without reflection on them, in the same way anyone can turn up to a Standing for Women event without tarring Posie.

The above quote and this:

I was very proud of that. But then a lot of my pleasure was spoiled by the stream of attacks on the topic by Brighton feminists. They could have focused on the TRA woman who screamed abuse at the baby, or the smoke bomb throwers, but they went for KJK instead, which then felt like an attack on all of us who participated.

And this:

Another Brighton feminist had a massive go at me because I went to Posie’s Christmas party a few years ago - great night - & wasn’t sufficiently concerned about who else had bought a ticket.

Is what posters are sick and fucking tired of @IamSarah the rank hypocrisy, the glee with which woman who don't play the game the way you, JCJ, WPUK and other feminists demand are torn to shreds. The simple fact is that none of this was necessary but you all chose to do it and then start weeping and wailing when your actions bite you on the arse.

The campaigns for women's rights do not have to be run in way approved by you, JCJ, WPUK et al and who decided you would be the arbiters of that anyway?

Whatever else can be said about KJK she is honest about her stand, her campaign and has never wavered from I'll speak to anyone who will listen and listen to anyone who wants to speak at an event I organise. You don't have to like it or participate you could just let her carry on but instead you have to constantly traduce, undermine and vilify her - what do you expect that to achieve?

I asked earlier if you and the others could separate cause from person and it is clear you cannot.

Yes. I agree. If the page came down, and not replaced with anything similar. And the rejection page on WPUK. It would be a start.

That sounds fair