Jane Clare Jones on purity spirals

[IamSarah]

Really insightful post on X the platform formally known as Twitter I feel it's worth sharing on here:

x.com/janeclarejones/status/1745760345954689255?s=46&t=NGJBRqkXgp1UazF5I8yjXA

I only skim Twitter. So Kellie Jay is now posting things about a group of women that has maintained a sin page on her, and made her the target in a facebook group?

Is it about the hypocrisy of referring a parent to Went for guidance? Is it about the fact that Went's ability to speak at your event has been defended while her events are held up as being problematic? What is she saying about the group that has a public sin page dedicated to her that makes a feminist group's public sin page very tame in comparison.

By the way I agree, Went should be allowed to speak in the public domain if everyone is free to speak there. My issue is purely with the hypocrisy of defending Went's right to speak while declaring other's events problematic for allowing the same right.

She's not raising money for a centre. She's challenging a centre because it refuses to provide single-sex support for women. Even though it provides trans- only groups. They get a choice between specialised support and a mixed sex group, but women don't get any choice.

Tinsel is absolutely won't budge an inch when it comes to who is the priority when men are pretending to be women. Hint: it's always women.

I think that's why you find her rude, because she never puts men's feelings above women's. It's a very unusual stance even within feminist circles.

Sorry I didn't really understand your question. My legal case to secure single sex rape crisis therapy in Sussex is separate from the event Sisters Salon held on Tuesday.

The event with KJW in the picture had nothing to do with women's rape crisis counselling.

ah. I see. Just general crap things that also could be a personal gripe but you will consider it to be supportive that KJK deserves to held up by a feminist group as being deserved of dedicated page listing her 'sins.'

Yes, I can see you don't care about the page. And I see you don't see the hypocrisy behind the thread. I believe I have been more than clear that I am 'complaining' about the hypocrisy of what motivated Jane Clare Jones' thread and how the group, which includes the OP, has treated others in the past.

Is it possible to unspiral (if there is such a word). A number of posters on this thread have been expressing their opinion about many issues. No one has to agree with what is said. They are also free to clearly express why they do not agree.

Sadly, the OP clearly wants to be held blameless and does not enjoy different views. She has been on FWR for years and still attempts to use the 'guilty' judgement on other posters when they do not agree.

JCJ is not perfect. No one is and each and every person has the right to their ideas. We live and learn through a process, not through coercion.

“By the way I agree, Went should be allowed to speak in the public domain if everyone is free to speak there. My issue is purely with the hypocrisy of defending Went's right to speak while declaring others’ events problematic for allowing the same right.”

Thanks Helle, that’s explained the background to all this in a nutshell.

It’s always amazing to me to see criticism of being aligned with Christianity, as if being aligned with Genderism, just as equally batshit a religion, is somehow better. Such a lack of insight, can’t see how they are just as evangelical. “Believe in the God of Genderism you bigots!”

As far as I can tell there are many similarities between this and Phil Illy getting photographed at Genspect. This whole bullshit idea that he should be respected and listened to because of his views on AGP.

Fuck that.

Sorry i misread. She's "trying to secure the option of single sex rape crisis therapy" not an actual center. I'm still interested in hearing what she thought she was signaling to survivors of rape by men like KatyJon by referring to him as esteemed and choosing to post a photo of him with prominent feminists, then playing mind games with women who voiced an objection. Very interested in hearing that because she must know that the constant gaslighting survivors endure being one herself. Just business again, is it?

@Helleofabore just a few things, accused our local feminist group of Platforming AGPs (not true). Smeared our local domestic violence refuge, accusing them of forcing mixed sex refuge places (not true). Accused all Brighton feminists of being vile and toxic (subjective).

I think what Wombatmama was saying Sarah, earlier in the thread, was that your promotional photograph of an AGP at the event, undermines our confidence that you would prioritise women like her, who have been mistreated by AGP men, in your plans for single sex rape crisis centres.

Oh, and I also support Went's presence at a public event too. Don't get me wrong there either. I am absolutely all for every one being able to go to public events and act respectfully there allowing the speakers to speak and if it is offerred that the public speak, that they do so.

What I am not about to do is accept that a Brighton feminist group can hand wave away the very behaviour that they have declared unacceptable for others. Particularly based on the fact that Went is some kind of acceptable 'guest' when it is clear that Went uses female single sex spaces so has actively harmed female people. Yet, other women are to be vilified for holding public events in open air spaces and allowing anyone to come and listen, and any woman who wants to speak to speak. They are to be vilified for guilt by association when often there is not even any 'association' to speak of.

If you cannot see the hypocrisy in this situation, I find it remarkable.

I addressed that earlier in the thread in my reply to Tinsel. 14.22.

Sorry Wombatmama, now it looks like I'm trying to speak for you! I just didn't want your point to be lost in a fast moving thread.

I don’t know you IRL Sarah, but I, like many have donated to the funds for your case after reading about it here on FWR.

I’ll admit although I’ve read much of the thread I couldn’t manage JCJs lengthly post. I read extensively despite being dyslexic but I found it too hard to pick out the point, i kept wondering if I’d jumped lines in the prose whilst reading.

@IamSarah Oh I see so you can't be arsed to respond to me personally. No esteem for the women you claim to fight for?

So Went did not speak at your event? Because hasn't your group accused her of 'platforming' people when she has merely allowed them to speak? Or are you denying that Went is an AGP?

Is the local domestic violence refuge forcing female people to be housed with male people if that male person declares that they are a woman? Has she got the refuge mixed up with the rape crisis centre? Has anyone told her she has got it wrong? I would hope that she would apologise if she had it wrong, she has apologised in the past.

If she had said that 'some' Brighton feminists have been vile and toxic, she would have been ok then? But then again, has any one of you suggested removing the sin page? Yes or no? I mean, did you want her to call out specifically those members of your group that participate in targeting her on the facebook page? Would she have been ok to have done that instead?

I am only going by what you have said she has posted. I don't agree with her that all Brighton feminists are vile and toxic.

I think you are misunderstanding IamSarah, who has actually responded to you personally.

@TinselAngel you've done more to help women like me than ANYONE. You never need to apologise to me. Sorry this latest mindflook has me discombobulated. It is neverending. Praising abusive men and ostracising their victims is just twisted.

I’ll admit although I’ve read much of the thread I couldn’t manage JCJs lengthly post. I read extensively despite being dyslexic but I found it too hard to pick out the point, i kept wondering if I’d jumped lines in the prose whilst reading.

It's not you, it's her. I always assume that people who deliberately write in an unclear and obfuscatory manner are trying to sound cleverer than they are. It's not big or clever.

Not really. I will fight for your right to access single sex rape crisis therapy. I don't believe I owe you any further explanation of a picture of a male at a mixed sex event you were not at.

I didn't go to university. I left school with average grades and started working at 16. I've never read any feminist books and really didn't think about feminism at all until I started to question this ideology.

I struggle to understand a lot of the things written by JCJ. All the words seem to jumble together when reading them and don't really make a lot of sense to me.
From the day I started reading this board (about 7 or 8 years ago) the regular posters made complete sense. Women and girls come first. Many women will be excluded from their own spaces if they become mixed sex. Tinsel is very clear about the issues for trans widows.

When all this shit is over, most of us here can say that we always put women and girls first. I will never understand why anyone wouldn't.

I don't believe I owe you any further explanation of a picture of a male at a mixed sex event you were not at.
You're still deliberately missing the point that I have explained to you two or three times, and in this instance being very rude to a fellow survivor.