What do you think should happen to the Gender Recognition Act (GRA)?

[TERFisTHEnewTREND]

Personally, I can't believe this act was ever passed! I know 2004 was a different time, but still!

I believe that the only way of moving past the gender madness in law is to revoke the GRA. "Gender" is about as useful as someone's favorite type of music, so it has no place on a legal document.

As for what should happen to those who already have a GRA... well, I think some of them are owed an apology by those who told them that this piece of paper would change their sex (which it doesn't).

What do others think?

I said yes to your question. How did you miss that?

It was the first word in the post.

OK so when you’ve binned the ECHR what then replaces the Good Friday Agreement?

As I've said repeatedly, I'm not advocating repealing it.

A new treaty dealing with the actual Ireland/Northern Ireland issue which doesn't require unconsenting women to be confronted with strange penis in women only spaces.

It's not rocket science, is it?

Indeed but plenty others are.

You’re also advocating hollowing it out in a way that would also not be possible within the ECHR.

But that framing of sex and gender is nonsense. There is no de facto correspondence between sex and gender identity. Such a correspondence or incongruity depends on a belief system which accepts the validity of gender stereotypes. If you cannot prove that gender stereotypes are well defined and binary and immutable across cultures, how can you enforce any law based on that concept?

Yes. We don’t need to be held over a barrel. Things change

Women isn't it staggering how if you won't accept unwanted cock in your face at all times the entire world falls apart and its all your fault

It's getting really desperate now.

Why would it not be possible within the ECHR?

The ECHR was interpreted by a judge to include the right for penises to be where they have no business being.

Why could a subsequent judge not overturn that decision as the bad law it clearly is and interpret the ECHR to actually grant women equal rights to men? You don't have to squint nearly so hard to read that intention into it.

Do you have any understanding of the Good Friday Agreement?

There is a reason it took over 30 years of bloodshed before it could be negotiated. It is incredibly delicately balanced and so no, replacing it is not just a matter of ‘a new treaty’. And while peace in Northern Ireland isn’t rocket science, it eluded some of the most talented politicians and officials and leaders across multiple generations and remains incredibly fragile.

Guide to Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights.

https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/d/echr/Guide_Art_8_ENG

So Margot, get your kit off and accept unwanted cock or you will destroy the peace in Northern Ireland. It all relies on penises!

Or something.

Fgs. There are times I don't seriously believe I'm having this conversation.

Take that up with the court.

The issue here is people being honest about what it would take to repeal the GRA which precious few advocates are willing to do.

So women must be forced to accept strange penis in women only spaces because otherwise peace in Northern Ireland will be destroyed and it will all be our fault for daring to believe that we should actually have equal rights to the penis people?

Jesus Christ, can you even hear yourself?

Guide to Article 12 the right to marry.

https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/d/echr/Guide_Art_12_ENG

Bad laws will fail eventually. This is a safeguarding loophole which has to be closed. I’m sure someone in power will find a way to do it, it’s not really our job!

Alternatively, we could all just agree that the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement which are actually relevant in any way to the state of diplomatic relations between the UK and Ireland can be preserved, and the part about women being required to accept penises in their single sex spaces because otherwise some men will be sad can be struck out as it is literally irrelevant.

Nope. The jurisprudence is not related to access to spaces as I already said. If this was a discussion about changing the Equality Act I’m not aware of any ECHR jurisprudence preventing that.

But there is a long line of jurisprudence (ie not ‘a judge’ but rather multiple judges across decades of case law) establishing a right to change sex markers for all legal purposes.

You don’t have to like that fact but it remains a fact nonetheless.

Guide to Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights

Freedom of thought, conscience and religion.

https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/d/echr/guide_art_9_eng

@PlanetJanette Can you explain to me why we would have to leave the ECHR if we repealed or amended the GRA. Had a quick hunt on ECHR rulings (the one in 2015) i can see how it is being interpreted, but states signed up, can and do formulate domestic legislation that takes into account the impact on other peoples protected rights. Just asking for your reasoning.

You are contradicting yourself at every turn.

Either the Equality Act can be updated making it clear that sex means biological sex and that holders of a gender recognition certificate must still use single sex spaces in accordance with their sex, not their gender identity, or international human rights law forces the UK to allow men to be women for all legal purposes.

Which is it?

Don't you just love that we're long past any justification of these men being women, or women not being excluded and harmed or anything else now, and we're down to 'resisting unwanted penises and exclusion will destroy the peace in northern ireland'.

Can you hear yourself, glibly saying Northern Ireland should just ‘get another treaty’ after you’ve ripped up the Good Friday Agreement.

Do you have any sense of irony when you talk about women’s rights while doing so? Do you have any concept of the suffering of women during the troubles? Of the women murdered, or widowed or who lost children. The women maimed, or left caring for those with life long disabilities? Of the mothers who lost children.

No one who cares about the wellbeing of women would so glibly and ignorantly just declare that Northern Ireland should just get another peace treaty so that less than 10,000 trans people can no longer have their sex changed on their birth certificate.

None of this is set in stone. The people who brought in the GRA didn’t think through the ramifications

If enough people feel it’s a bad law with a bad outcome it can be dropped. And yes that means either changing the convention or leaving.

I don’t agree with @PlanetJanette that none of this can change. Society has messed up big time, we are not stuck with that.

Guide to Article 11 of the ECHR

Freedom of assembly and association.

https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/d/echr/Guide_Art_11_ENG