What do you think should happen to the Gender Recognition Act (GRA)?

[TERFisTHEnewTREND]

Personally, I can't believe this act was ever passed! I know 2004 was a different time, but still!

I believe that the only way of moving past the gender madness in law is to revoke the GRA. "Gender" is about as useful as someone's favorite type of music, so it has no place on a legal document.

As for what should happen to those who already have a GRA... well, I think some of them are owed an apology by those who told them that this piece of paper would change their sex (which it doesn't).

What do others think?

I don't agree with the narrative that you’re constructing around trans people. “Hiding”. Implying they’re deceptive and fraudulent. Clearly there’s a difference between someone who modified their body as part of a treatment that supports them to live as much as possible as the sex they wish to be seen as, and someone who is “without testicles” for other reasons.

The whole concept of trans is built on deception. It's about trying to convince other people that the trans person is the opposite sex to that which they actually are.

But do you extend this idea of living as the person they want to be seen as to other attributes like age and race?

Was Rachel Dolezal deceptive and fraudulent or just living as her true self?

What about Stephonknee Wolscht? Is he deceptive and fraudulent or just living as his true self as a 6-year-old girl?

When did we agree this as a society?
Probably with the passing of the GRA officially. There’s similar in most of the western world.
Perhaps not everyone agrees but they don’t have to. You could say that we agreed gay marriage is acceptable as a society, bot not everyone voted for it.

It's worth remembering that in the UK, one of the main reasons that the GRA was passed was to avoid legalising same sex marriage.

And I wouldn't say that society agreed to men becoming legally women when the GRA was passed. Most of us knew nothing about it, and Christine Burns of Press for Change boasted about getting the law passed quietly.

It’s a mistake to get something like the GRA through, with no campaign or manifesto pledge and expect the disadvantaged group not to push back

Take it to a vote and let’s decide

You're expecting 'society' participate in fraud, for people to embrace defrauding themselves.

www.cps.gov.uk/mersey-cheshire/news/woman-who-posed-man-have-relationship-woman-convicted-sexual-assault

What’s the relevance of the link? That wasn’t a trans person. Just an abusive woman.

They're trying to pass themselves off as members of the opposite sex,of course they're fraudulent.

I was responding to the idea that we have aggreed,as a society, to treat men as women because they make attempts to change secondary sex characteristics .

We all know that secondary sex characteristics dont define sex and dont make someone appear as the opposite sex. Women with mastectomies will look similar regardless of the reasons for the sugery. How would it be possible to treat some women as if they were men when its impossible to know who wants to be treated as the opposite sex? It requires the women to declare themselves trans and start every conversation with a pronoun declaration, because theres no other way to know.

Why should i treat men as women when they look and behave like every other man, and their motivations are likely to be sexist or sexually motivated. Its dangerous for women and children to treat Isla Bryson and Amy George as if they are women, but the law, medical profession and trans organisations make no effort to acknowledge this and do something about it.

Until they do, i dont see why i should humour, lie and put myself at risk, just because some people want to live a fantasy that the look, behave and are the opposite sex.

So if that grad been a trans person the deception would have been OK?

How can you tell the difference between a person who wants to be perceived as the opposite sex for one reason and a person who wants to be perceived as the opposite sex for another reason?

Grad? Autocaorrect and can't edit on app. Should say person.

Go do some sticker therapy 😉

Laws cannot force people to see something that isnt there, and the law cannot make something impossible true.

All the law can do is change id, it cannot change a persons sex.

So now rather than seeing a man, i get to see a man with female id. It doesnt make me see a women, it just reminds me that id doesnt reflect the truth.

Thats why the governing couldnt promote the GRA. Because it wasnt changing anything about a person, it was only falsifying individuals birth certificates.

Thats why the governing couldnt promote the GRA. Because it wasnt changing anything about a person, it was only falsifying individuals birth certificates.

And the Labour Party have stated how proud they are of the GRA - proud of passing the most misogynistic, homophobic and fraudulent Act.

You only have to have watched Lord Falconer at the Parliamentary Committee Meeting in January 2023 to see just how much contempt for the impact of the GRA on women Labour had then and still do now.

My punishment for maybe breaking a mumsnetter was swift and rather harsh this morning!

Awks. Maybe sticker therapy will fix it?

Remember the government was forced to introduce the GRA. It didnt want to, so the fact that Starmer and others are enthusiastic about it now, when they probably would have been resistant at the time, is telling.

It reflects a political class who will introduce laws they dont support, but expect the public to accept and follow without question.

Yep! That works!

But what actually is the difference between a woman who has had a mastectomy for cancer and a woman who has had a mastectomy because psychologically she’s more comfortable with a flat chest? Other than presentation?

Would there be a difference if that woman was masculine in her presentation and had had a mastectomy because of cancer.

Is the only difference one is psychologically more comfortable, why would society see her as a man? That may be what that individual believes of themself but why should everyone else?

I don't buy the they were forced to do so, oh poor us line, sorry. Firstly, they could have put up far better arguments against it as per those outlined earlier in this thread regarding the impact on others Human Rights. Secondly, they did not have to introduce it in the format they did.

The forced bit is the excuse they use for their rank incompetence, couldn't care less about women and homosexuals attitude at the time.

Yay for sticker therapy.

I've broken some stuff in my time but never a door handle. Well done boiled.

Is this a trans person or just another abusive woman?

https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/05/trans-man-with-no-penis-is-jailed-for-tricking-women-with-unknown-object-during-sex-7914555/

@AHighOf9Degrees "You’re comparing apples with oranges. Or apples with tinned pineapples. What’s the point? It doesn’t move the arguments forward In any constructive way."
To be honest I think a better analogy is comparing Nutella with a nut free alternative.

What’s the relevance of the link? That wasn’t a trans person. Just an abusive woman.

How do you know for sure how this individual identifies?

If they say they're a man, he's a man. That's how it works nowadays. No genital inspection necessary, thank 'ee very much, you bigot.

To add to your what's the difference query:

What's the difference between a woman having her breasts removed completely to make her happier in her own body, a woman having her breasts reduced in size to make her happier in her own body, a woman having breast implants to make her happier in her own body? All three do it because they are unhappy with the body they have for some reason.

Why do some of the women in the removing completely group doing it for psychological reasons think society would now see them as men rather than women who are just happier with no breasts?

Apparently there's a difference between a woman genuinely pretending to be a man, and a woman pretending to be a woman who is genuinely pretending to be a man.

No idea what the difference is though, or how we're supposed to tell.

Or why we're supposed to invest all this time and energy in worrying about what might potentially be going on between the ears of someone so that we can predicate our own reality accordingly and know what to think and what to do.

It's not really a healthy or functional way to live, or relate to others. And it doesn't half accord a lot of power to others in a not very healthy way.

These large organisations, not directly accountable to the public they are there to serve, are very useful when governments dont want to justify laws and regulations.