The Asexual spectrum.

[TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening]

I've been informed recently about this.
I thought it was had no sexual feelings, or had sex, but apparently not.
Now I know better.

I absolutely didn't laugh, promise.

My nan has been widowed since 75, she’s now 95. She’ll be thrilled to know she’s queer because she doesn’t have a sex partner.

There’s some interesting posts on here - much more interesting than a self obsessed married who wants some Q id.

i would say it’s reasonable to have acceptance for asexual people (as in ppl with no interest in sex) just the acknowledgment that’s it’s ok to feel that way and not be seen as an odd ball is as important as anyone else who is mildly different from the everyone else around them.

It’s the redefining and co-opting of words that’s the trouble. Most people in relationships want to just have sex with their partner but not all the time. Many single women (and some men?) want to feel comfortable or connected in some way to their sexual partner. It’s not even reinventing the wheel, just calling it by a cool new name.

It’s worrying that there are so many young women turning to these labels because they don’t feel like porn stereotypes. We should absolutely be reminding them that it’s ok to say no, to want to feel something and that you’re not going to feel something- even raging lust- for everyone all the time. It’s ok to be tired or not interested. That’s a standard human response!

No one should have to label themselves when what they should be comfortable saying is just no.

I think that there is a real feminist point here (articulated in this thread with humour) about female sexuality and libido. I think there is a decent chance that a large minority (possibly even a majority?) of women have feelings about sex that are not dissimilar to those described by the woman in the OP.

When I was in my teens/early twenties if you didn't want sex/were honest that you didn't want sex early in a relationship then you risked being seen as immature/uncool at best, a prick tease/frigid at worst. Only Christians were "allowed" to wait or to want to wait.

I think it is much worse now in some ways as the sex positive movement, coupled with porn has moved to decouple sex from relationships, so relationships for a large proportion of young people today begin with sex with the possibility/hope of a relationship to follow, rather than the other way around.

However, the glimmer of hope I see from the invention of the asexuality spectrum is that there is now the possibility of a discussion/more honesty about women, sex and relationships. It could be enlightening and positive for relationships between men and women, if we can dispense with the idea that these are queer identities.

Sex and how people have sec has everything to do with women’s safety. Sex harms and kills women in many different ways. I wonder whether that was at the root of it’s being historically controlled for women?

These days violent sex has become fashionable, with choking, slapping and anal having been normalised.

Even if sex is not violent, pregnancy and childbirth have risks to women and being a parent without the right support is risky.

young people needing to label themselves asexual to be allowed to refuse sex is concerning. Corrective rape- coercing someone into sex to demonstrate they aren’t really gay/asexual etc- hasn’t gone away.

All this is absolutely a feminist issue.

And actually, anything feminists want to talk about is AOK. Including cake, weetabix, and the ability to wear make up without looking like a drag artist, which seems to have crept up on me in my fifties.

.

I think "demisexual" can be a useful shorthand for some people for communicating certain aspects of their life experience. Similarly I think it's one reason people gravitate toward the "non-binary" label - it's a convenient way in certain contexts of expressing why you don't confirm to perceived social norms.

But there's also the socially performative "appropriation of 'queerness'" side of these things where demisexual or non-binary characteristics become an easy way for boring straight "cis" people to identify as Queer and therefore Special (but also Oppressed).

It's hardly necessary for most people to know you're demisexual (though it might be helpful to be open about it in a dating context, say) let alone for it to be the main thing for people to know about you that headlines your Twitter bio.

I remember a couple of decades ago when asexual advocacy really did seem to be for people who felt no sexual attraction (or very very little). But perhaps I misunderstood it. I know some trans people really hate non-binary people; I wonder if "true" asexuals feel the same way about the wave of demisexuals and other performative weirdos on the "ace spectrum" who have flooded asexual communities recently.

I agree the sex positive movement has a lot to answer for.

it doesn’t seem an actual positive thing for women- accepting that women are sexual, no shame in women having, expressing and enjoying sexual pleasure is what we should be arguing for not simply anything women do that heterosexual men want or else they’re not feminist/cool/uptight. It’s the same shaming with a different style of beard.

Sex positivity doesn’t seem to be about women being in control of their sexuality, when where and with whom they choose to share it, it seems like men have grabbed the idea and made it work for them. Again.

A demisexual person can only experience secondary sexual attraction – the type of attraction that occurs after the development of an emotional bond.

This describes billions of people around the world. Billions.

Sorry, but that’s just navel gazing drivel. It is entirely different to neurodiversity. It is a made up phenomenon fuelled by the desire to be seen as ‘queer’.
Personal validation of what precisely? What would you define ‘asexual’ as?

People being asexual affects women's safety how?

The problem is with the definition of asexuality as in the article above, to mean 'monogamous without a particularly high sex drive'. This suggests the 'normal' is to be promiscuous and constantly up for sex, anything less than that and you must be labelled 'asexual' or 'demi-sexual'. This sets an expectation of women engaging in behaviour they might not be comfortable with. If you don't leap into bed with someone on the first date, you must be labelled.

I think describing what may be the norm for the majority of women and a proportion of men as 'demisexuality' is definitely a feminist issue. Firstly that star is because I don't know whether it is the norm. Secondly to imply that having a sexualuty that is completely normal as 'half' the norm or 'less' than any other kind of sexuality indicates a skewed and possibly malecentric view of sex.

Likewise describing yourself as 'on the asexual spectrum' because you are 'aromantic sex-positive' is quite obviously a potentially abusive way of forced-teaming women who identify as asexual.

Utgh my stars became a random bold, sorry.

Secondly to imply that having a sexualuty that is completely normal as 'half' the norm or 'less' than any other kind of sexuality indicates a skewed and possibly malecentric view of sex.

This is an eye opening observation. I recently saw a video of a woman explaining how many women will not find their future boyfriend attractive off the bat, but will come to do so upon discovering his personality. I have a friend who expressed very similar sentiments about her now-fiancé. How he wasn't her type at first but is now the most attractive man in the world to her.

The concept of demisexuality assumes the default of sexual attraction is the male (or predominantly male) one.

Women's experiences are left out of the equation or sidelined into alternative sexualities.

@TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening
I often feel the alphabet people are giving me labels I don’t want, don’t need so I also end up on the eye rolling spectrum.

I have a theory that for some it’s paraphillia’s but for many it’s needing not to be average. People hate being average even though that’s what most of us are. Non-conformity is more exciting so we end up with the ever expanding list of pronouns and new words for the same thing pansexual = bisexual, demisexual = don’t like one night stands etc.

My personal favourite is PCOS = Intersex and there is a train branded with the Intersex flag because, you know, having PCOS means I couldn’t possibly get on a train just like everyone else.

Well, since you ask what it has to do with feminism, here is a genuine answer: identifying yourself through an aspect of your sexuality which is highly contingent and is very likely to change, an aspect which depends on changeable aspects of women's physical body such as the hormone levels that often fluctuate in the short term (through the menstrual cycle) and which can undergo sea changes at life points such as into and after pregnancy and into and past menopause .... is particularly destructive for women.

Are there any special words for women who are as horny as hell for the week after their period finishes and then can't be arsed for the rest of the month? I only had this experience during menopause but you'd think if you were going to name anything and everything then that would deserve a word of its own. Or sex with the intention of baby-making, that's almost a whole sexuality of its own. 'course if it's only youngsters who get to generate all these names then they're going to leave out the really important stuff because it wont have happened to them yet.

But anyway, as other people have said, this kind of labelling is embedding something about into your sense of self which isn't fixed. Especially not if you're female.

Gender identities and these faux sexualities/orientations are all just descriptions of people’s personalities. People’s personalities are being pushed as something needing legal protections and legislation specific to them. It makes as much sense as legal protections for people who don’t like the colour blue or jazz.

It’s indicative of how lunacy is being given too much leeway. The sooner we shut down lunacy like this the quicker our society might make actual progress.

Sorry, but that’s just navel gazing drivel. It is entirely different to neurodiversity. It is a made up phenomenon fuelled by the desire to be seen as ‘queer’.
Personal validation of what precisely? What would you define ‘asexual’ as?

Asexuality is not a made up phenomenon. It is a normal part of being human. It is a normal part of maturing from childhood to adulthood. For most people it is a temporary condition, disappearing at some point during or after puberty, but for a minority of adults it persists and they never feel sexual attraction to another person.

If you are 16 and your peers are all discovering sex, it can be very isolating if your feelings about boys (or girls) are the same as when you were 10. And then that continues into your 20s, and all you're interested in is platonic friendships. Yes, it is as isolating as being autistic and functioning in society - functioning as an outsider always second-guessing yourself and trying to fit in.

I've known several people tell about receiving adult diagnoses of ADHD, ASD, and dyslexia. Without exception they said things like "I'm not stupid after all!" Because when you cannot fit in, cannot do what everyone else seems to find so easy, so natural, you tend to get labelled stupid, and you tend to internalise that label.

We've seen it here on MN, when posters discover that other people are also asexual - they are not defective, they are OK! Equally, for that young person who feels something is wrong with them when everyone else is pairing off, to discover, "Oh, it's not just straight/gay/bi... it's straight/gay/bi/ace, and I'm ace! I do have a sexuality, just like everybody else! I'm not stupid after all!"

That's what I mean by personally validating.

It becomes a problem when the personal is made public and is imposed upon others. It also becomes a problem when the young person who has embraced the label, then continues sexual maturation and begins to experience sexual feelings. That's when the current fixation with labelling becomes toxic for them, because they have internalised a temporary condition as permanent.

The navel gazers are the people who redefine terms in order to fit their own narrative, and justify imposing them on others. Eg monogamous with low sex-drive=asexual=queer=oppressed=need for public validation. That's the navel-gazing drivel.

OMG! I can't stand tea either!

I am literally crying and shaking now that I have found somebody who understand the literal pain and HATRED I have felt my whole life.

Also relevant to "sex and gender" are some of the things Az Hakeem has to say about the role of asexuality and facilitative sex in gender transition, and there's a relationship with neurodiversity too. He talks about the ability of asexual people who feel neither much sexual desire nor much repulsion to redefine their sexual orientation along with their gender identity when transitioning. It's in this conversation with Benjamin Boyce]] from about 15 - 18 minutes. I will probably butcher his arguments if I try to reproduce them myself.

Tea is a good analogy 😆 I, too, was the weird non-tea-drinker, subjected to outrageous conversion therapy. But, guess what, things changed and I now drink tea. I was ateaous, now I'm demiteaous.

(Er, no, I just don't like tea and now I sometimes fancy a cuppa. FFS I'm - normal???!!!)

I am horrified - horrified I say! - by the teaphobia on this thread. How dare you say you wont enjoy any cup of tea? You are ruling out an entire class of drink. Such narrowmindness, such prejudice.

Educate yourselves. Do better!

@MumOfYoungTransAdult I’m sorry, it gets worse. I actually feel nauseous when forced to drink tea in circles where it would be rude to simply decline.
<hangs head in shame>

We really need to feisty up our females- I’ve just realised that I’ve been coerced into drinking tea, in addition to many other things both more and less serious.

I was trained in people pleasing instead of self belief.

@JellySaurus
How can you live your life as a lie??!! Be brave and stunning and embrace your authentic ATea self.