Why are so many women hellbent on acting against their own interest?

[thedankness]

From TWAW, pro "sex-work", "kinky sex" and porn, plastic surgery, accepting low standards in relationships with men, being anti-abortion to more trivial things such as wearing heels, and yes, shaving, and so much more, so many women will defend these things to the hilt. They refuse/are unable to see how these things are bad for themselves and/or women generally, even after presented with arguments. Obviously some people will disagree with points made in an argument, but I just don't see men subjugating themselves en masse like I do women.

I feel sad. Why can't we as women just love ourselves and look out for ourselves? I feel like we are groomed into self-hate. Is the notion of female self-acceptance and worth truly so radical that a significant number can't even fathom it as a possibility for themselves?

Why is it so common for women to act against their interest? And can or should we do anything about it?

This is a bit poorly-worded, have thoughts but am interested to hear others' opinions.

I have no idea how in English the master of the house came to be addressed as mister and his sons as master, but I doubt it had anything to do with advertising marital status.

Unless there are servants in the house, there’s no need for children to be addressed by a title so it would make sense for Miss and Master or equivalents to be associated with the rich. Señorito in Spanish is now a pejorative term for a rich young man.
In England, some single women who obtained there own status such as cooks and housekeepers seem to have been called Mrs but those who had inherited status stuck with Miss until married.

In Polish there is term "panicz" (diminutive of "pan", like "fraulein" is diminutive of "frau") that would have been used by everyone who knew him - which means all the neighbours etc. A young man would also be introduced to new people as such, so his marital status would have been immediately known.

Nowadays it is used as light insult, but so is "panna/panienka" (miss), all adults are Pan/Pani otherwise.

However, I've heard my Polish grandma use this term when talking about people from her youth, so I think it must have been in regular use until at least mid-century.

also, I remember reading that even in England old spinsters were sometimes referred to as Mrs, especially governesses or if they run schools, but I don't think that was a rule

On that note, it still confuses when I think about why did we call all female teachers "miss" in secondary school - even obviously married ones.

"On that note, it still confuses when I think about why did we call all female teachers "miss" in secondary school - even obviously married ones."

Until not so long age married women had to give up their teaching jobs so female teachers were traditionally unmarried.

"On that note, it still confuses when I think about why did we call all female teachers "miss" in secondary school - even obviously married ones."

In my day, you’d be eaten alive for doing that!

Bcause Miss is short for Mistress, which is the female equivalent of Master, even though, as with many words, its female association has diminished its status. I always quite liked being called 'Miss' when a teacher. I'm married but tend to cringe at the title Mrs.

I guess in the past most teachers were unmarried women, anyway - as women used to be expected to give up their job upon marriage. Teaching was one of those professions open to women. A lot of my female teachers at aschool were either unmarried or lesbian. I went to an all girls C Of E school.

I used to teach in a school in which the male teachers were referred to as 'Sir' an the female teachers 'Madam' .

I disagree that politicians are at the top actually. Opposition MPs have influence, but no real power. Only the government has power, especially in times of a strong majority.

I also disagree about politicians' looks. Since politics have been more televised I think many of the most successful are quite good looking, or at least inoffensive looking. Think of Clinton, Blair, Cameron, Sunak, etc. Biden is very good for his age.

I suggest the Idealism of 'equality' and the imagination that there are no real differences between the sexes is what lies beneath a lot of women camapaigning to erode women's spaces and services, and to deny the integrity of women as a distinct category of human being.

to be honest, I think only Sunak and maybe Blair are / were good genuinely good looking. The rest was perfectly average, not as ugly as Johnson, but I wouldn't look at Cameron and think him a model material.

I'm not sure it's a complete non-issue for feminists in those countries.
I live somewhere with no Ms so my travel tickets in English show Mrs. I'm called Mrs by everyone because of my age, but if someone asks me my title in that language, I'm not sure what to say because technically I'm Miss, but prefer Mrs and there is no Ms option.

What? When was your day? Female teachers have traditionally been addressed as Miss in the UK when using a stand-alone title and not title and surname (equivalent to Sir in English rather than Mr).

I think both Johnson and Cameron are OK looking.
Ok Johnson is fat, but that can add gravitas to people of a certain age and in certain positions.
I do wonder if someone like Cyril Smith would get elected now though (because of his size, not because of the allegations that came later).

@Gwenhwyfar I guess it depends as to whether the title is associated more with youth or being married

@WhatWouldJeevesDo I like how the custom changes with times, I went to secondary school in early 00s. We've had a married couple as teachers, both nearing retirement, and everyone called wife a "miss" even though she was neither young nor unmarried, I don't think anyone questioned it at the time

@Gwenhwyfar I think someone's size is yet another angle that is somewhat separate from the whole question of attractiveness - society is pretty fatphobic in that negative personality traits tend to be assigned to overweight people

I only partly agree. As I said, there is sometimes an expectation for middle aged people to be fat, depending on the context.

I also think it's part of attractiveness.

The Lady of the ( grand) house, who generally ran the household and its staff was referred to as the Mistress of the house - even if married.

Likewise, even if married a female headteacher was a Headmistress not a Headmissus.

I started the infants in 1972. It was definitely drilled into us to use title and surname.
In secondary school, there may have been the odd woman - maybe newly qualified or in training - who didn’t object to Miss, but it was rarely used.
At the same time, representations of school on television and so on perpetuated the idea that everyone called women teachers Miss.
That’s my experience: Miss was absolutely never allowed in primary school and rarely in secondary school.

Ah OK, I see.
We had title and surname in primary, so an unmarried woman would have been Miss X, but not just 'miss' on its own and then 'sir' and miss' in secondary. There was a programme called 'Please Sir' and miss and sir were definitely common on TV and at the other schools my contemporaries went to.

I don't understand why you would have been eaten alive though. In the 90s it was common for people to use 'miss' to get a young woman's attention - I heard it a lot working in a cafe.

That does sound unusual. I was teaching until 10 years ago and was always referred to as 'Miss'; likewise my daughter who is currently teaching. ( secondary school. Primary school you use title plus surname)

Ocassionally you'd accidentally get called 'Mum' too......

This is normal.
Both Miss and Mrs come from Mistress.

"That does sound unusual."

I had the same system as Jeeves in primary so I presume she just went to a secondary that used the same system as many primaries i.e. title and surname. It's not that they called female teachers Madam or something, as I first imagined from her post. They do use Ma'am in the US don't they. I presume also for unmarried women teachers.

That's certainly not my association. To my mind 'Mrs' equates with Master's - as in the master's wife ( she also takes his name). 'Miss' has far more authority for an older woman, I think. It denotes singularity and independence. Men don't change their title upon marriage.

"Ocassionally you'd accidentally get called 'Mum' too......Edited"

You might prefer it to Grandma, but then maybe I'm being ageist :)

I didn't mind it, it was quite endearing to be honest.

@RebelliousCow - Mrs is short of Mistress, and Miss was used when referring to young lady of the house. Most households had a Master and Mistress, so Mr and Mrs

Edit: to me it's the direct opposite in terms of what I would want to be referred as, probably due to my family background. Even if I was unmarried I would not take kindly to being referred to as Miss. Ms or Mrs is fine, but Miss absolutely not, and for "Missus" I may just throw hands 😂