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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why are so many women hellbent on acting against their own interest?

682 replies

thedankness · 22/12/2023 15:39

From TWAW, pro "sex-work", "kinky sex" and porn, plastic surgery, accepting low standards in relationships with men, being anti-abortion to more trivial things such as wearing heels, and yes, shaving, and so much more, so many women will defend these things to the hilt. They refuse/are unable to see how these things are bad for themselves and/or women generally, even after presented with arguments. Obviously some people will disagree with points made in an argument, but I just don't see men subjugating themselves en masse like I do women.

I feel sad. Why can't we as women just love ourselves and look out for ourselves? I feel like we are groomed into self-hate. Is the notion of female self-acceptance and worth truly so radical that a significant number can't even fathom it as a possibility for themselves?

Why is it so common for women to act against their interest? And can or should we do anything about it?

This is a bit poorly-worded, have thoughts but am interested to hear others' opinions.

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LolaSmiles · 27/01/2024 17:45

I nearly mentioned 50 Shades because I think that didn't help the situation. It dresses up the same dehumanising view of women as romance. It's an abusive relationship dressed up as kinky romance. Add in the extra woman tolerates stuff because she wants to please the man, man using current female partner to resolve or replay historic baggage with previous partners, and the implication that he gets a free pass on his behaviour because he has a past and it's a textbook "if you loved me... It's not my fault" dynamic.

Controlling behaviour patterns are normalised in many places though. Look at the Twilight books. Edward and Bella are sold as a love story but it's a controlling relationship and a very unhealthy model.

Without sounding like a prude, most adults can work out what they enjoy in the bedroom. They've been managing for long enough. There's no need to romanticise harmful behaviours, which makes me keep wondering who is benefitting by normalising this stuff.

PaintedEgg · 27/01/2024 20:40

at least 50 shades states what it is - you know you're going to read a smut when you pick it up - however the quality of writing needs a warning of its own (I've read 2/3 of first book...if anything it has managed to make sex sound either boring and revolting).

but the thing it was written by a woman for women, and started of as twilight fan-fiction. Its initial success was also somewhat organic...so we could ask a question if these books create or simply meet the demand. There was always market for "bodice rippers" with majority of authors being women. Women are also more than capable of shoving explicit sex acts in their writing with no relation to plot or content warning (I'm looking ar Philippa Gregory here)

But I absolutely agree that these should not be plastered on social media where teenagers are

PaperDoIIs · 27/01/2024 20:48

PaintedEgg · 27/01/2024 20:40

at least 50 shades states what it is - you know you're going to read a smut when you pick it up - however the quality of writing needs a warning of its own (I've read 2/3 of first book...if anything it has managed to make sex sound either boring and revolting).

but the thing it was written by a woman for women, and started of as twilight fan-fiction. Its initial success was also somewhat organic...so we could ask a question if these books create or simply meet the demand. There was always market for "bodice rippers" with majority of authors being women. Women are also more than capable of shoving explicit sex acts in their writing with no relation to plot or content warning (I'm looking ar Philippa Gregory here)

But I absolutely agree that these should not be plastered on social media where teenagers are

They released the movie on Valentine's Day. Coupled with other heavy promoting and hyping people up , presenting it as a romantic,hot,passionate love story etc... it definitely created the demand , or at least massively increased it.

If the bloke was poor and living in a trailer park it would've been an episode of Criminal Minds ffs.

PaintedEgg · 27/01/2024 20:55

@PaperDoIIs absolutely, apparently best way to check if a character is a creep is to imagine him poor and looking like Danny DeVito

PaperDoIIs · 27/01/2024 21:00

PaintedEgg · 27/01/2024 20:55

@PaperDoIIs absolutely, apparently best way to check if a character is a creep is to imagine him poor and looking like Danny DeVito

We agree on something.Grin

Redpencil99 · 11/02/2024 22:52

Because of the unwritten social "laws" that say women must fall in line and be conforming to gender and societal stereotypes

TempestTost · 11/02/2024 23:44

I'm not sure it's possible or realistic to stop kink moving into the mainstream. Some probably never will, but the problem is what counts as kink changes.

Oral sex was considered kinky at one time - my grandmother would have considered it an imposition. I have a friend who immigrated from another country and was hugely surprised when he started dating here to find it was not only common, but it was a problem for most if you didn't want to do it. Now, it's not dangerous really, so not a concern except so far as people feel obligated when they really don't like it. But my point is that expectations about sexual behaviour are somewhat socially determined, even at a personal intimate level. We also have a culture that is always chasing novelty, is obsessed with pushing boundaries, and sex itself can gain some real frisson from being edgy. So there is really not much to stop previously "kinky" things from becoming mainstream.

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